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Mosque Being Built 2 Blocks Away From Ground Zero... What Do You Think?

It doesn't matter. If it was disallowed, the government would be sued. If the mosque is built, some nut job is going to blow it up.

Lose lose situation.
 
ZDroid1 said:
By the way, anyone who thinks Islam is a moderate or peaceful religion, doesn't know anything about Islam.

The religion was started by a man who violently destroyed the sacred statutes and holy places of his own people while shouting that his god is the only true god. Islam from day one has been a religion of exclusivity and intolerance.
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Judaism was started by a guy who destroyed the false gods of the land he lived in. Christians, historically, have done the same. Those are the three major religions in the Western world. All of them have violent pasts.
 
A.Nonymous said:
Judaism was started by a guy who destroyed the false gods of the land he lived in. Christians, historically, have done the same. Those are the three major religions in the Western world. All of them have violent pasts.
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Oh, that makes it ok then.
 
Reidic said:
Hes not trying to say its ok, hes trying to say your argument is null and void since those religions all share similar violent pasts
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No. First of all, the founder of Christianity did not violently destroy anyone's sacred sites or lead any armies. So right there his comparison is inaccurate. I wasn't talking about the followers of Islam but the very founder of the religion.

Secondly, I was talking about islam, making a comment about its founder. His decision to drag two other religions into this does not contradict or confirm anything I said, which makes his comment irrelevant.
 
ZDroid1 said:
No. First of all, the founder of Christianity did not violently destroy anyone's sacred sites or lead any armies. So right there his comparison is inaccurate. I wasn't talking about the followers of Islam but the very founder of the religion.

Secondly, I was talking about islam, making a comment about its founder. His decision to drag two other religions into this does not contradict or confirm anything I said, which makes his comment irrelevant.
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The "founder" of Christianity? Who might that have been?
 
ZDroid1 said:
By the way, anyone who thinks Islam is a moderate or peaceful religion, doesn't know anything about Islam.

The religion was started by a man who violently destroyed the sacred statutes and holy places of his own people while shouting that his god is the only true god. Islam from day one has been a religion of exclusivity and intolerance.
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Anyone who thinks Islam is not a moderate or peaceful religion, doesnt know anything about Islam. You have have no facts to back up what you say. How do you violently destroy a statue :confused: Using emotive language doesnt really add to your argument.

I also fail to see how its an exclusive religion, as far as I am ware, you only have to say one verse. Which is something along the lines of, there is only one god, and Muhammad is the messenger of God, and your a Muslim...not very exclusive.

There are a plethora of events through history, that show Islam as a peaceful religion. There are events where Islam has been involved in wars. You have to look at why did these take place, only then can you arrive at a conclusion as to whether Islam is peaceful or not.
 
ZDroid1 said:
Keith is wrong about Cordoba. I know with absolute certainty that Islamic fundamentalists are proud of the Muslim conquest in Spain and cite it as a symbol of Islam's victory over Christendom in the past.

I mean what a bunch of bs. They want to promote peace and understanding by using the name of a place Muslims CONQUERED and OCCUPIED for 400 years by defeating the Christians there?
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Or maybe they are proud of the fact that Muslims, Jews and Christians were able to live in peace and harmony.

This absolute certainty you have. What is it based on? Either way, they have decided to change the name of the project. So a moot point really.
 
vistauser said:
Anyone who thinks Islam is not a moderate or peaceful religion, doesnt know anything about Islam. You have have no facts to back up what you say. How do you violently destroy a statue :confused: Using emotive language doesnt really add to your argument.
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Are you serious? You need "facts"? That is a fact. When Mohammad conquered Mecca, he destroyed all the sacred idols of the Arab tribes in their most holy site. Look it up. Do you find that action moderate, peaceful and inclusive? Silly me, I assumed the moderate and inclusive thing to do would be to respect the sacred site and leave it alone.

And that was done by the actual founder of the religion, not some of his "extreme followers".

I also fail to see how its an exclusive religion, as far as I am ware, you only have to say one verse. Which is something along the lines of, there is only one god, and Muhammad is the messenger of God, and your a Muslim...not very exclusive.
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Yes. Muhammad invited the conquered people to either join his religion, or be killed, except for "people of the book", who had to pay a special tax. Very inclusive!
 
vistauser said:
This absolute certainty you have. What is it based on?
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Reading history.

Cordoba was a city conquered by Muslims and occupied for 400 years, in Europe. The symbolism is blindingly obvious.

It would be like building a church in Saudi Arabia and calling in "Church of the Crusaders".

Oh wait. You can't build churches in Saudi Arabia! The tolerant, peaceful, moderate people of that country forbid that.
 
ZDroid1 said:
Are you serious? You need "facts"? That is a fact. When Mohammad conquered Mecca, he destroyed all the sacred idols of the Arab tribes in their most holy site. Look it up. Do you find that action moderate, peaceful and inclusive? Silly me, I assumed the moderate and inclusive thing to do would be to respect the sacred site and leave it alone.

And that was done by the actual founder of the religion, not some of his "extreme followers".



Yes. Muhammad invited the conquered people to either join his religion, or be killed, except for "people of the book", who had to pay a special tax. Very inclusive!
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sorry post was going of topic so have deleted it. Dont want to get banned. see pm
 
As a local I'm not bothered by the fact that Muslims want to build such a place. I'm bothered by the fact that they want to build it in such a scale and so close to the WTC site.

I'm also bothered by their chosen name "Cordoba". It is no secret that many Muslims still bemoan being pushed out of Spain and publicly hope to reclaim Andalusia (or as they call it, Al-Andalus), of which Cordoba is a major city.

As I see it, the chosen name for this project and its location come across a lightly veiled propaganda regarding the true intent behind the funding of this project (to publicly place a large muslim presence spelling out one of their hopes as close to the WTC as possible).

The Mosque that currently uses this site for spillover space is not even located in the same part of the city (It is in Chelsea). This place does not have to be located here. It can easily be built in many other parts of the city with little to no opposition and in just as grand a scale. I would urge to leaders of this project to exercise some common sense.

While the laws of this city and this country allow it to be built here, for it's builders to claim that its chosen name and location are about a desire to build bridges, IMHO, is the height of arrogance. That and their refusal to reveal their funding sources is shifty at best.

Look at it this way, how would muslims take it if Christians built a cathedral within sight of the al-Haram Mosque in Mecca and called it the Constantinople Center? Do you think it would rub the locals the wrong way, no matter what assurances were given?

I wonder if this organization would have any opposition to a liquor/pork/bikini/lingerie/dog grooming store to open next to their site even if that business had every legal right to open there.
 
Isthmus said:
As a local I'm not bothered by the fact that Muslims want to build such a place. I'm bothered by the fact that they want to build it in such a scale and so close to the WTC site.

I'm also bothered by their chosen name "Cordoba". It is no secret that many Muslims still bemoan being pushed out of Spain and publicly hope to reclaim Andalusia (or as they call it, Al-Andalus), of which Cordoba is a major city.

As I see it, the chosen name for this project and its location come across a lightly veiled propaganda regarding the true intent behind the funding of this project (to publicly place a large muslim presence spelling out one of their hopes as close to the WTC as possible).

The Mosque that currently uses this site for spillover space is not even located in the same part of the city (It is in Chelsea). This place does not have to be located here. It can easily be built in many other parts of the city with little to no opposition and in just as grand a scale. I would urge to leaders of this project to exercise some common sense.

While the laws of this city and this country allow it to be built here, for it's builders to claim that its chosen name and location are about a desire to build bridges, IMHO, is the height of arrogance. That and their refusal to reveal their funding sources is shifty at best.

Look at it this way, how would muslims take it if Christians built a cathedral within sight of the al-Haram Mosque in Mecca and called it the Constantinople Center? Do you think it would rub the locals the wrong way, no matter what assurances were given?

I wonder if this organization would have any opposition to a liquor/pork/bikini/lingerie/dog grooming store to open next to their site even if that business had every legal right to open there.
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They probably would not. The organization opening the mosque (which technically isn't really a mosque in the first place), is a moderate Sufi organization. They've actually been condemned by more extreme Islamic sects. The imam heading up the project was tapped by Bush to speak to the FBI about Islam and has served on several interfaith boards in the NYC area. He's openly opposed extremism. The State Department is actually sending him on an overseas tour to promote religious tolerance. Clearly neither the Bush nor the Obama administrations view this guy as a radical.
 
I'm fine with the families of these people having a place to pray and remember their loved ones should they choose to, but hey, that's just me.

[FONT=verdana, geneva, helvetica][FONT=verdana, geneva, helvetica]Samad Afridi
Ashraf Ahmad
Shabbir Ahmad (45 years old; Windows on the World; leaves wife and 3 children)
Umar Ahmad
Azam Ahsan
Ahmed Ali
Tariq Amanullah (40 years old; Fiduciary Trust Co.; ICNA website team member; leaves wife and 2 children)
Touri Bolourchi (69 years old; United Airlines #175; a retired nurse from Tehran)
Salauddin Ahmad Chaudhury
Abdul K. Chowdhury (30 years old; Cantor Fitzgerald)
Mohammad S. Chowdhury (39 years old; Windows on the World; leaves wife and child born 2 days after the attack)
Jamal Legesse Desantis
Ramzi Attallah Douani (35 years old; Marsh & McLennan)
SaleemUllah Farooqi
Syed Fatha (54 years old; Pitney Bowes)
Osman Gani
Mohammad Hamdani (50 years old)
Salman Hamdani (NYPD Cadet)
Aisha Harris (21 years old; General Telecom)
Shakila Hoque (Marsh & McLennan)
Nabid Hossain
Shahzad Hussain
Talat Hussain
Mohammad Shah Jahan (Marsh & McLennan)
Yasmeen Jamal
Mohammed Jawarta (MAS security)
Arslan Khan Khakwani
Asim Khan
Ataullah Khan
Ayub Khan
Qasim Ali Khan
Sarah Khan (32 years old; Cantor Fitzgerald)
Taimour Khan (29 years old; Karr Futures)
Yasmeen Khan
Zahida Khan
Badruddin Lakhani
Omar Malick
Nurul Hoque Miah (36 years old)
Mubarak Mohammad (23 years old)
Boyie Mohammed (Carr Futures)
Raza Mujtaba
Omar Namoos
Mujeb Qazi
Tarranum Rahim
Ehtesham U. Raja (28 years old)
Ameenia Rasool (33 years old)
Naveed Rehman
Yusuf Saad
Rahma Salie & unborn child (28 years old; American Airlines #11; wife of Michael Theodoridis; 7 months pregnant)
Shoman Samad
Asad Samir
Khalid Shahid (25 years old; Cantor Fitzgerald; engaged to be married in November)
Mohammed Shajahan (44 years old; Marsh & McLennan)
Naseema Simjee (Franklin Resources Inc.'s Fiduciary Trust)
Jamil Swaati
Sanober Syed
Robert Elias Talhami (40 years old; Cantor Fitzgerald)
Michael Theodoridis (32 years old; American Airlines #11; husband of Rahma Salie)
W. Wahid[/FONT][/FONT]
 
Isthmus said:
As a local I'm not bothered by the fact that Muslims want to build such a place. I'm bothered by the fact that they want to build it in such a scale and so close to the WTC site.

I'm also bothered by their chosen name "Cordoba". It is no secret that many Muslims still bemoan being pushed out of Spain and publicly hope to reclaim Andalusia (or as they call it, Al-Andalus), of which Cordoba is a major city.

As I see it, the chosen name for this project and its location come across a lightly veiled propaganda regarding the true intent behind the funding of this project (to publicly place a large muslim presence spelling out one of their hopes as close to the WTC as possible).

The Mosque that currently uses this site for spillover space is not even located in the same part of the city (It is in Chelsea). This place does not have to be located here. It can easily be built in many other parts of the city with little to no opposition and in just as grand a scale. I would urge to leaders of this project to exercise some common sense.

While the laws of this city and this country allow it to be built here, for it's builders to claim that its chosen name and location are about a desire to build bridges, IMHO, is the height of arrogance. That and their refusal to reveal their funding sources is shifty at best.

Look at it this way, how would muslims take it if Christians built a cathedral within sight of the al-Haram Mosque in Mecca and called it the Constantinople Center? Do you think it would rub the locals the wrong way, no matter what assurances were given?

I wonder if this organization would have any opposition to a liquor/pork/bikini/lingerie/dog grooming store to open next to their site even if that business had every legal right to open there.
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They have changed the name from Cordoba to Parkway 51.
 
this is really a moot discussion anyhow.......... it will never be built...... lets forget the facts that:

A) they will never find an engineer to do the project (this building has thus far been sketched on a napkin and off to the press reports)

B) they havent even bought the property yet (they bought half the property needed, the other half isnt necessarily available to them)

then you have pretty much the main determining factor involved here (still amazes me that everyone assumes this is a done deal)......... they estimate the cost to be $1M.... so far they have raised (out of $1M) a whopping total of $18K (thats thousand)....

so after all this planning and discussion.... theyve managed to secure less than 2% of the funding needed..... they still have no design for the building.....they dont even own the property yet...... and everyone is up in arms worried

I do have 1 question though...... where is the public outcry and discussion about the Christian church that already existed in that area and was destroyed in the attack... yet they still this many years later cant get approval to be rebuilt???

theres all kinds of media about the public not wanting a mosque built in the neighborhood for obvious reasons........... but there hasnt been a single peep about the government preventing a pre-existing Christian church from being rebuilt
 
copestag said:
I do have 1 question though...... where is the public outcry and discussion about the Christian church that already existed in that area and was destroyed in the attack... yet they still this many years later cant get approval to be rebuilt???
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What reason has the city given for withholding approval? Links would be helpful here as well.
 
I don't see why people are making a big deal out of this.

Quit being racist

It is the first amendment,
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
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EDIT:

FYI 22% of the World's population is Muslim.
FYI 28,000,000 people in Afghan are Muslim. and only an estimated 25,000 are terrorists.

Everybody has their ****ed up people.

Judging an entire religion because of a small portion of crazy people is being racist whether you deny it or not.

actually racist is a bad choice of wording because its a religion not a race

lets go with prejudice
 
They have every right to build the mosque there. However, it's in horribly bad taste to do so. Looking at the imam's statements about the wtc attacks & Bin Ladin, I would seriously question his motives for wanting to build in such close proximity:

RAUF: The United States' policies were an accessory to the crime that happened, because we have been an accessory to a lot of innocent lives dying in the world. In fact, in the most direct sense, Osama bin Laden is made in the USA! <60 minutes, Sept 2001>

Basically, the man responsible for wanting to build the mosque believes the responsibility & guilt of the 9/11 attacks are the US's own fault, not the terrorists.

The fact is, the people caused the attacks to happen were believers of Islam, and to build a major Islamic center in such close proximity to the disaster site is a legal, yet tasteless slap in the face to the families of the majority of victims.
 
ionekoa said:
assuming that the intention is what the original "cordoba" name allegedly implies, changing the name would not change the intention.
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Their intention, from what I have read, was to celebrate the 400 odd years of Islam, Judaism and Christianity living in harmony. I thought it was a good name to pick.
 
vistauser said:
Their intention, from what I have read, was to celebrate the 400 odd years of Islam, Judaism and Christianity living in harmony. I thought it was a good name to pick.
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That's like a person who kidnapped someone and held him captive, and then celebrated all the good times they had together throughout the ordeal.
 
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