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Mosque Being Built 2 Blocks Away From Ground Zero... What Do You Think?

Steven58 said:
On the news, I heard that they are going back to naming it the Cordoba House. Originally, they shied away from naming it that because the battle of Cordoba (Spain) was where the Muslims apparently took away the rights of Christians and Jews to practice their faith.

There are a lot sensitive issues here.
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Really? I didnt know.

600 years ago Muslims were ten times as tolerant of Jews as Christians were then...

As soon as "the great Christian" Isabella & Co
came to power Jews were treated like sh!t :(


Humans can be so stupid :(
 
mpw said:
You've entirely missed the point I was making with that post smacky; but it's my fault, it obviously wasn't clear enough.

Did you read the post I was replying to?

If you did you'll know that my post is basically para-phrasing the poster I was replying to; I was trying to show that if you apply his thinking about one group, Muslims in this case, to another group with which you associate, then it shows that no group is 'all the same' as the poster I was replying to was asserting.

I'm not racist smacky, I was trying to show that whether you're talking about Muslim or Christian you can't say that all are as bad as the worst in their respective groups.

To be clear, I don't think that the poster applauds murder done in the name of the Christian God, I was just trying to get him to think about how his views on 'Joe Muslim' are totally wrong in context.

Clear?

I was actually just coming back to edit my post to make it clearer, as it had been brought to my attention that it wasn't, but unfortunately it seems to have been deleted; so I thank you smacky for saving it, allowing me the chance to correct your misconception of me.

Also while looking back up the thread for my post I note you still haven't answered my last question to you, obviously you've visited the thread since, so it can't have missed your attention.
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The Chinese are great people. I have no comment on your comment about relating this situation to The People's Republic of China.
 
Storm613 said:
So one of my Facebook Friends posted something about this and it seems to be a pretty hot topic right now. There are opinions on both ends of this, and I'd like to see what you guys think.

As for me, I think they should be free to build it. Here's Why:


  • The Mosque would be built two blocks away from the site of the attack. Not ON ground zero. It's not the same.
  • Isn't this one of the things our country is build upon? The right for people to worship who they want, when they want, and where they want?
  • Not all Muslims are extremists like the Taliban.
  • Let's compare Adolf Hitler to Osama bin Laden. Hitler called himself a Christian. bin Laden calls himself a Muslim. People do not tell Christians where to build their Churches just because Hitler was a VERY EXTREME christian. Why should people tell Muslims where to build their mosques just because Osama bin Laden is a VERY EXTREME Muslim?
  • An extension to that point - There are atleast two churches within two blocks of Ground Zero. Hitler was christian. Why aren't people complaining about them?
  • Saying it is wrong to build a Mosque two blocks away from Ground Zero is like saying it is wrong to build a Mosque in New York City period. You might think its not the same, but where would you draw the line?
  • They want to build the Mosque on a PRIVATE LOT two blocks away from Ground Zero. Not a Public Location. Who are we to tell people what to build on a private lot?

Now before you go cursing people out here, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Please respect the opinions of others.

Aaaaaaand... GO!
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100% legal.

Should they be ALLOWED to do it? HELL YES, that's what our country was founded on!

Is it a GOOD IDEA for them to do it? HELL NO, are you kidding me?! This is a very sensitive issue.

/thread.
 
smacky said:
The Chinese are great people. I have no comment on your comment about relating this situation to The People's Republic of China.
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Agree with you there. I stayed in China for a month..possibly the best experience of my life..so far.

Phateless said:
100% legal.

Should they be ALLOWED to do it? HELL YES, that's what our country was founded on!

Is it a GOOD IDEA for them to do it? HELL NO, are you kidding me?! This is a very sensitive issue.

/thread.
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Sensitive? Its been 9 years...Why yes it is still fresh in people's memories. Should it be used as a poster-child for not doing a certain thing? Hell no.
 
Familyguy1 said:
Sensitive? Its been 9 years...Why yes it is still fresh in people's memories. Should it be used as a poster-child for not doing a certain thing? Hell no.
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I don't think sensitive is the word to describe it. I agree that people need to recognize the difference between the religious and the religious extremists, but the fact is that most americans don't.
 
I like what Jon Stewart had to say about this. I'm paraphrasing:

The Conservatives don't want the terrorists to think they've won. The Liberals don't want to inflame them and hurt their feelings.

I have a third way. How about we follow a system where we don't give a f#### what the terrorists think.
 
ZDroid1 said:
I like what Jon Stewart had to say about this. I'm paraphrasing:

The Conservatives don't want the terrorists to think they've won. The Liberals don't want to inflame them and hurt their feelings.

I have a third way. How about we follow a system where we don't give a f#### what the terrorists think.
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The same logic should be applied to racism, sexism, sexual-orientation-ism, etc. Live and let live.
 
Go for it. They have every right to celebrate their religion.

Any form of bigotry is an extreme example of closed mindedness and intolerance. I have a huge problem with anyone who wants to blow my ass up, or those things that I do cherish in this country. I dont care if their muslim, jewish, christian, or any other religion or race, they need to get theirs and i'm sure they will at some point.

They want to die, whats wrong with helping em get there...sooner.
 
smacky said:
Right. But I'm not saying to stop the gay bar. I'm saying it could be a slippery slope if we use the reasoning of some of the members in here.



I'm pretty sure I'm being consistent in saying that Muslims will cause problems once they have their grip on the land the Mosque is built on. They will become territorial and any demand of theirs that is not met will result in a jihad by the clerics. This is my prediction. I am being consistent in saying that we need to think long and hard about the repercussions of assuaging a few NYC Muslims' requests over vs. listening to American citizens and their feelings, and you're being a ponce in constantly asking for clarification of everyone's posts.



I mentioned it earlier, that it could be a slippery slope in demands by the Muslims after that. If they object to gay bars because they think homosexuality is sinful, well, let's what else Muslims can't do.

They are not allowed to drink alcohol. They are not allowed to eat meat from a pig. They are not big fans of dogs. To some Muslims, music is haram.

You know what that means? No butchers nearby that have pigs, your dog can't shit where it wants (possibly) or it at least won't be allowed within a certain radius of the mosque, no liquor stores anywhere near it, and if you have a party, "keeping it down" is not an option you can't have music.

I'm not these WILL happen. But they could. Technically, it would be insensitive for non-Muslims to do all these things around Muslims in the area where the mosque is. But who do we favor at this point? The residents near the mosque that live there, or the Muslims that spend Friday night prayers at the mosque and that's it? These are possible problems that may arise. And I think it will be a slippery slope.

I'm not so hung up on the gay bar thing regarding Muslims. It is just an example of one thing that they don't condone. I listed a few others. If they don't get pissed at it, fine, great. "They" meaning every single Muslim that goes there. Because it takes just one person, regardless of faith, to commit an act or vandalism. Will every muslim be ok if certain businesses were to arise around their mosque, in addition to the already-built gay bar?


My main concern is someone will do something that will set the city on fire. Muslim or non-Muslim. Something will be said or done to either side and because religion is the core concern of the issue, it will spread much beyond just the city. It will be worldwide and the US will have a big problem on its hands.
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Dood, are you serious? Those people are building a mosque right on top of a hornets nest surrounded by a napalm moat. The people in this country take for granted our liberties, however we will scream about em when someone does something we dont like. Deal with it. Its their right to offend you just as much as its your right to offend them. But to be so bigoted and stereotypical to say that they will start planning anti-american actions and attacks out of that mosque is the basis for pointless hate and bigotry.

Lets not delude the facts. I love this country and it pains me to say what Im about to, but I'm also not immune to the truth about how this country tends to operate its foreign policy at times. We are paying the price for our own negligence and self serving needs. You do realize who trained bin-laden right? We did. Muje-Hadin were trained and equipped by the US Govt in the 70s-80's to challenge the russians in pakistan/afghanistan. We promised alot of things that we never delivered on and guess what, 30 years later we are paying the price.

Is it right? No. But its happening. We made our beds, now we have to lie in them and also, on a good side of things, we now realize we really aren't invincible, or untouchable.
 
infil said:
Dood, are you serious? Those people are building a mosque right on top of a hornets nest surrounded by a napalm moat. The people in this country take for granted our liberties, however we will scream about em when someone does something we dont like. Deal with it. Its their right to offend you just as much as its your right to offend them. But to be so bigoted and stereotypical to say that they will start planning anti-american actions and attacks out of that mosque is the basis for pointless hate and bigotry.

Lets not delude the facts. I love this country and it pains me to say what Im about to, but I'm also not immune to the truth about how this country tends to operate its foreign policy at times. We are paying the price for our own negligence and self serving needs. You do realize who trained bin-laden right? We did. Muje-Hadin were trained and equipped by the US Govt in the 70s-80's to challenge the russians in pakistan/afghanistan. We promised alot of things that we never delivered on and guess what, 30 years later we are paying the price.

Is it right? No. But its happening. We made our beds, now we have to lie in them and also, on a good side of things, we now realize we really aren't invincible, or untouchable.
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Hmmm. Sounds like the premise of the Bourne Identity.

Sure, let them build it. We'll deal with them if they pull a fast one like we've always dealt with things when we realize we started the fire.
 
Would you have the same objections of there were a Shinto Shrine or Hindu Temple being built?
 
infil said:
Would you have the same objections of there were a Shinto Shrine or Hindu Temple being built?
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I would think no because most Americans do not know what Shintoism is.

So can someone once again give me a straightforward answer as to why this mosque should not be built?
 
infil said:
Go for it. They have every right to celebrate their religion.

Any form of bigotry is an extreme example of closed mindedness and intolerance. I have a huge problem with anyone who wants to blow my ass up, or those things that I do cherish in this country. I dont care if their muslim, jewish, christian, or any other religion or race, they need to get theirs and i'm sure they will at some point.

They want to die, whats wrong with helping em get there...sooner.
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They want to die? o.0
 
Familyguy1 said:
Plus.....we started Vietnam...so....no I would not be offended; plus the food is bad..
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Really I like it
Crappy restaurant perhaps
Many SEAsian shops in my city
Cook yourself mmmm....


Yeah US started Vietnam, but unlike in Korea, most people wanted communism, and tbf, the communist party has built a stromng economy there considering the way the US left the place :/
 
Okay... there are a few perspectives on this discussion... here goes: ( I don't mean to offend any1 here)

1) LEGAL ISSUES / STATUS

It is within the rights of the American consitution and it is legal to allow the construction of the Mosque to be put there....no one can prevent it....

2) MORALITY ISSUES:

People died in 9/11....period. It was a sad day....but it makes life no easier for athe rest of humanity for some1 to go and build the Mosque there...that shows no respect for the lost / loved ones of that day...this is very sad indeed.

Infact it shows disrespect... and disrespect = A Bad News Person / People....no matter what religous views you have.... respect the other victim of the crime...simple as that....

3) THE LAW IS NOT ALWAYS RIGHT:

The law is written by lawyers or whoever writes it...they are not perfect AT ALL hahaha just joking to the lawyers here :) but anyway...the law helps us create boundries but is not always right....

4) MY RELIGIOUS VIEWS
Humanity consists of imperfect beings...thus if we write up something called the "holy" bible or the "holy" quran....it is made / constructed up by imperfect beings...humans make mistakes all the time... this is fact.... no one is perfect so we need to live together in harmony....somehow....lol :) I believe there is a god...

Just my 2 cents.... and i don't mean to offend any1 here and i am really sorry if i did.

Stinky Stinky
 
smacky said:
Alright. I said I had no issue with it. The real trouble will happen once it's finally built.
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Yeah....thats true, here in TN(murfreesboro), I believe there was a supposed arson threat to the mosque here(its been here for 30 years...).
 
Hmm wiat what do you guys mean when you say "The real trouble will happen once it's finally built."

that sounds bad.... :(
 
Stinky Stinky said:
Hmm wiat what do you guys mean when you say "The real trouble will happen once it's finally built."

that sounds bad.... :(
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You know how someone had to write the Quran before it was threatened to be burned? How Ayodhya had to be built before Muslims could bomb the **** out of it?

This mosque will be another Ayodhya. The history behind it may be different, but the actions will be the same.
 
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