No, the efuse is not preventing you from installing other software onto your device. It is the bootloader that requires a digital, Motorola signed encryption key that is preventing you from installing other apps.
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Root **Official** Droid X encrypted bootloader and efuse thread
- Thread starter kwest12
- Start date
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- motorola droid x
No, the efuse is not preventing you from installing other software onto your device. It is the bootloader that requires a digital, Motorola signed encryption key that is preventing you from installing other apps.
midijunky
Newbie
Jesus... Ok Fine, rephrase my last question with these facts instead. Point still stands...
Jesus... Ok Fine, rephrase my last question with these facts instead. Point still stands...
Sorry. I wasn't trying to be an jerk about it. There is just a lot of mis-information floating around out there. I honestly thought you were asking if efuse was active or not. Not whether the ruling applied to custom ROMs etc.
But to answer the real question.... the law does not force companies to open their devices. So it is perfectly fine for Motorola to continue to lock and encrypt their devices.
But it might call into question the legality of the efuse if it was really active and actually put your phone into a non-operational condition. I've read reports that point to be language in the release that would prevent a company from purposesly "bricking" a phone just simply because it is rooted (not because the user did something wrong and bricked it themselves).
Lars
Android Expert
The law simply says it's not illegal under the copyright act for you to hack into the phone. It "could" be illegal to use copyrighted microcode in the form of a ROM and then load it on that phone. I don't know what portions are copyrighted but, for instance, Sense and Blur are not part of the public domain Android AFAIK. Hence using them is probably not legal.
It's not illegal to climb Mt Everest, but don't complain if the mountain doesn't bow down before you to let you do it. If you die trying, your warranty is expired.
My personal stance on the subject is that owners should have admin rights to a computer that they own. Denying that right erodes the intended functionality of that device. Though Motorola can argue that the device meets the intended merchantability and fitness for a particular use, at some point the experience will erode to the iphone level and people will revolt and go back to the next more open operating system. The problem lies in human nature. People have the ability to drink and drive so ultimately the people who don't get punished in some way indirectly. There are user modes and administrator modes on machines for a reason. I don't run my machines in admin mode even though I can. Accidents happen and then who's to blame?
It's not illegal to climb Mt Everest, but don't complain if the mountain doesn't bow down before you to let you do it. If you die trying, your warranty is expired.
My personal stance on the subject is that owners should have admin rights to a computer that they own. Denying that right erodes the intended functionality of that device. Though Motorola can argue that the device meets the intended merchantability and fitness for a particular use, at some point the experience will erode to the iphone level and people will revolt and go back to the next more open operating system. The problem lies in human nature. People have the ability to drink and drive so ultimately the people who don't get punished in some way indirectly. There are user modes and administrator modes on machines for a reason. I don't run my machines in admin mode even though I can. Accidents happen and then who's to blame?
VIO
Android Enthusiast
honestly I just wanted to say what a well written, intelligent, and thought out post that was.
From page 10 of the rulemaking order in question:
So, really, all manufacturers can do now is make rooting technically difficult. I'm not even sure that intentionally interfering with fair use rights is entirely legal, but, to my knowledge, it has never been challenged. They can't sue you for copyright infringement now and they can't sue you for breach of contract since you own the device. Heck, they aren't even legally allowed to void your warranty due to the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.
So, you can reuse copyrighted code in a custom firmware. You can't distribute that firmware, since that would be copyright infringement. In practical terms, rather than download a ROM the legal method would be to extract your own ROM and run a patcher on it.
So, really, all manufacturers can do now is make rooting technically difficult. I'm not even sure that intentionally interfering with fair use rights is entirely legal, but, to my knowledge, it has never been challenged. They can't sue you for copyright infringement now and they can't sue you for breach of contract since you own the device. Heck, they aren't even legally allowed to void your warranty due to the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.
Lars
Android Expert
I agree. Using moto firmware on a moto phone is a stretch especially when the are providing it to run on that phone. Using part of sense on a moto phone would be different. Copyright infringement is very rampant. You can't do anything without incuring it these days. Just look at apple suing google etc. Really we are all in much of the same spot we thought we were. Root our phones because we own them. Motorola made a really good phone in the x. They are obligated to secure it as best as possible so that verizon will accept it on their network. Why i don't know. You don't hear verizon squawking about what software or functionality we have programed in to a laptop when they sell us a 3g card for it. The n1 developer phone never came to Vzw or att or sprint. Only tmobile embraced it. The att version was a side effect from the rogers request.
NickDroid86
Android Enthusiast
Is anyone working on the bootloader? I would like to know because I'm on my 30 day trial and if not I'm going to switch to the dinc.
NickDroid86
Android Enthusiast
Is that coming to verizon in less then a week?
NickDroid86
Android Enthusiast
Actually. Smaller screen, 2gb internal memory, 5mp camera and looks exactly like the iphone. I'll pass lol
HalfFrozen
Android Enthusiast
Go ahead and switch, I think the dinc may be more your style.
I'm inclined to agree. While I'm very optimistic about the Droid X being able to run custom firmware sooner rather than later, I can't say that it won't take many months before it's practical for most users. If running custom firmware is important enough to you that you're willing to switch, then I would suggest picking a phone that you know will run custom firmware right now. As of today, running custom firmware on the Droid X isn't practical for an end user. Nobody quite knows what tomorrow will bring, but that's still one less day that you can use that feature.
Personally, my major reason for wanting custom firmware is to keep up-to-date with Android releases. The Droid X is currently lagging behind a bit, but not too badly. Next year, I doubt Motorola will be as "quick" to update it, so I'm optimistic in expecting to use custom firmwares at that point. But realize that if you go this route that there is a significant risk that the bootloader might take a very long time to crack, and nobody has promised that it'll happen at all. All that can be said is that it's more difficult than usual, but still very possible, and several people are working on it in their free time. I expect it to be broken soon, but that's just my opinion.
Lars
Android Expert
IMO Motorola and HTC are working to prevent us from Rooting in an entirely different way as well. The number of useful root apps is dwindling rapidly due to added functionality. The DI, for instance, will now have a flashlight app that was previously only workable in root. Wifi tethering is now offered as an app on both, and the average person will likely go that route. It is possible that VZW will even include tethering in the new "limited" data plans since they can't prevent it anyway and have data caps that forces people to conserve. It was free on the WebOS... so maybe.
That doesn't leave much over. Titanium Backup seems like a dangerous way to preserve settings across a wipe or ROM load but I haven't used it. I only recall people using Sprite in WM and bricking their phones not realizing that a ROM load wasn't compatible. I prefer estrongs to back up apps.
I've resigned myself that deleting stock apk's is playing Russian Roulette and not necessary on a phone with 8gig of app space.
That doesn't leave much over. Titanium Backup seems like a dangerous way to preserve settings across a wipe or ROM load but I haven't used it. I only recall people using Sprite in WM and bricking their phones not realizing that a ROM load wasn't compatible. I prefer estrongs to back up apps.
I've resigned myself that deleting stock apk's is playing Russian Roulette and not necessary on a phone with 8gig of app space.
D13
Android Expert
Titanium backup is a really safe way for backing up apps and i have NEVER, never had a problem with it messing up
VIO
Android Enthusiast
Ditto, Titantium Backup is by far the most useful app I own. I'm not sure how tibu could possibility brick a phone.
LexusBrian400
Android Enthusiast
Question With the sbf now realeased will it be possible to extract the bootloader and replace it with a modified For DX "Original Droid" loader?
I remember something similar being done to convert the razr V3a bootloader to allow firmware modification using a V3m back when they got rid of the V3m on alltel and verizon and there was a change in almost every piece of hardware in that switch of phone versions
assuming that motorola has done the same thing that they and qualcomm(HTCs chipset designer) have done for years and just tweaked the software side of the boot nand for better security and to work with the new keys available.
But iI figure if it was as easy as just remapping which key set off a trigger boot loader or trigger recovery mode this would probally already have been done
I remember something similar being done to convert the razr V3a bootloader to allow firmware modification using a V3m back when they got rid of the V3m on alltel and verizon and there was a change in almost every piece of hardware in that switch of phone versions
assuming that motorola has done the same thing that they and qualcomm(HTCs chipset designer) have done for years and just tweaked the software side of the boot nand for better security and to work with the new keys available.
But iI figure if it was as easy as just remapping which key set off a trigger boot loader or trigger recovery mode this would probally already have been done
VIO
Android Enthusiast
I back up and restore system apps/data all the time, never had a problem. But yeah I guess if you had an old back up on a sdcard, from a completely different phone than you were tried to restore you could run into problems.
But honestly thats a really poor reason to ignore half it's functionality. How often does one find themselves in that situation? Isn't it a basic duh not to try and install software made for a different product?
Tho I guess in the case of the Dx one should be careful with system apps, give the lack of a true back up option.
VIO
Android Enthusiast
Hey sbf is all ya need
lol that was the next thread I saw. But yeah not that there is an available .sbf file the only way to truly Brick the X is to corrupt the bootloader, which Titanium Backup cannot ever, ever, ever do.
LexusBrian400
Android Enthusiast
bemymonkey
Newbie
You contradicted yourself in your own post
The whole point I was trying to get across, was just to be careful.
Might seem that way, but actually he wasn't contradicting himself
Titanium Backup backs up system data, but not the system apps themselves. There's no way to kill your system with Titanium Backup, and even restoring system settings from a completely different Android build usually doesn't lead to big problems. It could cause problems, of course, but I even restored my apps and system settings when moving from a Milestone (2.1) to a Desire (2.2) and it worked fine. Not all settings restored (probably because of differently named system apps), but the ones that were worked perfectly.
The "Just be careful" part is probably more about deleting unused system apps - but if you just back up your whole system/app folder before deleting any, you should be fine
