What the heck is the deal with iphone users Vs Android users

[darreno1]

Lets go over what you said again...

"Pcs are doing a lot more.... it is happening in the background" You make it sound like this is a unique advantage. My response. "Every modern OS does this" It is not unique to any OS. It is called a Daemon process most of the time.

Utilities,apps can and always run in the background on ANY OS. I run ffmpeg as a background cron job. I run rysnc to do my backups, you never see it either. Hidden apps (none console/non gui) are not unique. Your reply, again,"Don't assume because it is not visible, it's not running"
I never said it wasn't running. I said, every modern OS does this. Big deal if you think it is a feature of your set-up. It is not unique.

You've taken what I said out of context: That the average PC is running more things in the background than the average Mac. And by things I'm not merely talking about native processes. At no time was I implying that Macs don't run services. I know they do, they have to in order to function. But go to any home running a Mac and any running a PC and I can guarantee that the PC will be loaded down with a lot more background processes in general. Some good, many bad or not needed. And of course there are going to be exceptions.

NTFS. You say you do all these chkdisk/maintenance on your pc to make it run effectively. My argument is.. The filesystem is advertised to do this. It was advertised to do this since 1997.
I guess you don't understand my retort: you shouldn't be doing these maintenance/optimization if the OS's files system is suppose to be robust to already do this for you.
What is your point of the wiki link? I know what NTFS does. You didn't get my under-handed snide remark.

You made this statement:

Also, a proper journaled filesystem doesn't need chdisk or defragmentation. Wasn't that the whole purpose of NTFS.

I was merely pointing out that it wasn't the whole purpose. I'm not sure what I missed or wasn't clear. As for ntfs not needing any maintenance, that simply isn't true and I've never seen it advertised as such. It might have been in the pipeline at one time but for whatever technical reason, it does require routine maintenance to stay optimum. Maybe in the next version.

 

[toasty]

You've taken what I said out of context: That the average PC is running more things in the background than the average Mac. And by things I'm not merely talking about native processes. At no time was I implying that Macs don't run services. I know they do, they have to in order to function. But go to any home running a Mac and any running a PC and I can guarantee that the PC will be loaded down with a lot more background processes in general. Some good, many bad or not needed. And of course there are going to be exceptions.

can someone please explain to me why running all of these processes is supposedly a better thing?

 

[mrspeedmaster]

can someone please explain to me why running all of these processes is supposedly a better thing?

I don't get it either. Running a bunch of background apps? What is the point? OS needs to be lean. The faster they boot, the better. More services also means more vulnerabilities.

But really, it doesn't matter. We have machines w/ dual core standard and 2-4GB of RAM is not out of the ordinary for "consumer" computers.

Back to the filesystem.A good filesystem should handle most or all fragmentation,optimization issues. I'm personally not a big fan for one reason and one reason alone - forensic data recovery. Defragging drives moves used sectors into continuous disk space. The extra 1-2% of free drive space isn't worth it to me.

I can recover any hard-drive with a spinning platter. Corrupt partition tables, deleted files, corrupt sectors? No problem. Defragged drive? Well, I guess those 2-3 terabyte of family photos, I can't recover.

The poster should pray he never, ever have to recover from a corrupt drive w/ loss data. All that "optimization, defrag, chkdisk' may come back to haunt him.

 

[Vihzel]

Has this thread gone anywhere? How far off is it from the original topic?

 

[IOWA]

can someone please explain to me why running all of these processes is supposedly a better thing?

I don't get it either. Running a bunch of background apps? What is the point? OS needs to be lean. The faster they boot, the better. More services also means more vulnerabilities.

But really, it doesn't matter. We have machines w/ dual core standard and 2-4GB of RAM is not out of the ordinary for "consumer" computers.

Back to the filesystem.A good filesystem should handle most or all fragmentation,optimization issues. I'm personally not a big fan for one reason and one reason alone - forensic data recovery. Defragging drives moves used sectors into continuous disk space. The extra 1-2% of free drive space isn't worth it to me.

I can recover any hard-drive with a spinning platter. Corrupt partition tables, deleted files, corrupt sectors? No problem. Defragged drive? Well, I guess those 2-3 terabyte of family photos, I can't recover.

The poster should pray he never, ever have to recover from a corrupt drive w/ loss data. All that "optimization, defrag, chkdisk' may come back to haunt him.

This is exactly why I replace my hdd every two years. Norton ghost is the bomb diggity.

On a side note, the thread started somewhere in florida. I gander now we are somewhere in europe... lol

Tapatalk. Samsung Moment. Yep.

 

[PurpleBandit]

Whoo...what a read. Seriously I'm the proud owner an Xbox360, Ps3,Ipod, BBtour and very soon the fabulous Evo I use a PC at home and a Mac at work.I'm a Pepsi-holic, but I have a soft spot for Cherry coke...and orange fanta!! ...get my drift? BUY WHAT YOU LIKE, but don't bash someone for choosing to do as you have. Material items are meant for us to enjoy, not base our whole lives around or fight on the internet about(unless you got a high paying job with apple/ms). The ONE and only reason I did not get an iphone, was because of the AT&T branded ball and chain that came with it. I have been a happy Sprint customer for many years now and I know when to keep a good thing.
Lighten up buddies, life is too short too be obsessed with machinery, lol

 

[darreno1]

O

I don't get it either. Running a bunch of background apps? What is the point? OS needs to be lean. The faster they boot, the better. More services also means more vulnerabilities.

But really, it doesn't matter. We have machines w/ dual core standard and 2-4GB of RAM is not out of the ordinary for "consumer" computers.

Back to the filesystem.A good filesystem should handle most or all fragmentation,optimization issues. I'm personally not a big fan for one reason and one reason alone - forensic data recovery. Defragging drives moves used sectors into continuous disk space. The extra 1-2% of free drive space isn't worth it to me.

I can recover any hard-drive with a spinning platter. Corrupt partition tables, deleted files, corrupt sectors? No problem. Defragged drive? Well, I guess those 2-3 terabyte of family photos, I can't recover.

The poster should pray he never, ever have to recover from a corrupt drive w/ loss data. All that "optimization, defrag, chkdisk' may come back to haunt him.

I think you're referring to a situation in which the user runs a utility on their hard disk AFTER losing data. That's definitely not recommended but so is NOT having backups of one's important data. Also, avoiding possible data loss due to corruption and indexing errors is the main reason chkdsk is run to begin with.

 

[mrspeedmaster]

I think you're referring to a situation in which the user runs a utility on their hard disk AFTER losing data.

No, I am referring to situations BEFORE you lose the data.
When you defrag, you are moving physical data around to different part of the drive. When a file is deleted or corrupted, it is still there, often hidden. With forensic recovery, you can still "undelete those files" You can read the physical sector and extract the raw info and convert it back to a real file. It may not have the original name but you WILL get a real file back like a missing spreadsheet or image. When you defrag, you just moved data around; overwriting those hidden files.

If you run a schedule a defrag, you will get blind-sighted and your chance of recovery is NILL.

I've used my MAC to repair,salvage,restore many Windows
NTFS drives and recover MANY gigs of LOST DATA. My mac hating friends shut-up real quick and find macintoshes very useful after getting $2,000-$7,000 price quotes from data recovery houses to recover their data.

edit:
I just to add that you can't recover files after the disk starts to physically lose space, the OS does need to reclaim those unused space. So if the drive is getting full, it will re-write those unused/marked off sectors. I dont want to give the impression you can just recover any drive.

 

[darreno1]

No, I am referring to situations BEFORE you lose the data.
When you defrag, you are moving physical data around to different part of the drive. When a file is deleted or corrupted, it is still there, often hidden. With forensic recovery, you can still "undelete those files" You can read the physical sector and extract the raw info and convert it back to a real file. It may not have the original name but you WILL get a real file back like a missing spreadsheet or image. When you defrag, you just moved data around; overwriting those hidden files.

If you run a schedule a defrag, you will get blind-sighted and your chance of recovery is NILL.

I've used my MAC to repair,salvage,restore many Windows
NTFS drives and recover MANY gigs of LOST DATA. My mac hating friends shut-up real quick and find macintoshes very useful after getting $2,000-$7,000 price quotes from data recovery houses to recover their data.

edit:
I just to add that you can't recover files after the disk starts to physically lose space, the OS does need to reclaim those unused space. So if the drive is getting full, it will re-write those unused/marked off sectors. I dont want to give the impression you can just recover any drive.

We do recovery via easy recovery so I'm familiar with the process. And we certainly don't need or use a Mac for that. A raw recovery recovers even incomplete data in situations when a regular is unsuccessful. If I defragged the day before, then deleted a file the next day, recovering that file will not be a problem as the file structure was still present and intact after the defrag even though it was 'moved' around. If, however, I did another defrag after it was deleted then it can be a problem. That's how I understand it.

 

[mrspeedmaster]

We do recovery via easy recovery so I'm familiar with the process. And we certainly don't need or use a Mac for that. A raw recovery recovers even incomplete data in situations when a regular is unsuccessful. If I defragged the day before, then deleted a file the next day, recovering that file will not be a problem as the file structure was still present and intact after the defrag even though it was 'moved' around. If, however, I did another defrag after it was deleted then it can be a problem. That's how I understand it.

Yes. you are correct. The problem is the scheduled defrags. If you deleted on Monday (and didn't realize it), defrag every night on a schedule, chances by Friday, the file is forever gone. People don't realize they lost the files (often days and weeks later).

 

[toasty]

Has this thread gone anywhere? How far off is it from the original topic?

Also, the fact that this is one of the longest threads in this forum actually kinda makes my point about how much animosity there is directed to Apple, IMO.

 

[darreno1]

Yes. you are correct. The problem is the scheduled defrags. If you deleted on Monday (and didn't realize it), defrag every night on a schedule, chances by Friday, the file is forever gone. People don't realize they lost the files (often days and weeks later).

Well yes this can be an issue but there are a couple things to consider:

1. The default schedule for defragging is weekly, not daily. Doing it daily is overkill imo.

2. If it's being defragged regularly, then every subsequent defrag means less files are fragmented and less bits and pieces to move around. This then means it's more likely a deleted file will be able to be recovered after the fact.

3. Deleted files are usually because of a deliberate act, whether mistakenly or not. Even when there is evidence of corruption, the file will usually be visible just not readable. And of course there are exceptions like in cases of sudden or severe corruption due failing hardware etc but these are rare from my experience. Therefore users who are unaware or fail to act in a timely fashion when there is evidence of a problem deserve the possible consequences imo. As do those who rarely or never make backups.

 

[byteware]

As for your question to Safari, yes, I do use it. However, I've been switching to Chrome and with the recent news, I've been more aware. I don't use Safari or even OSX when I go to unknown sites. I use Chrome OS. It takes 2 seconds to boot in Parallels. If anything happens, it happens in a virtual sandbox.

So, if I'm understanding you correctly, you use Safari when going to known sites.

So, if this site were to get hacked, and the appropriate code uploaded, then you would helpless to prevent your system from being accessed by the perpetrator... correct?

Unless you only use the web in Parallels... which would be wise. On my home PC, I only access the web via virtual machine. It keeps my machine safe.

 

[IOWA]

Defragging weekly is overkill too. Once a month is more than enough. Especially with todays power machines. Keeping the registry clean is more important.

Tapatalk. Samsung Moment. Yep.

 

[byteware]

No, I am referring to situations BEFORE you lose the data.
When you defrag, you are moving physical data around to different part of the drive. When a file is deleted or corrupted, it is still there, often hidden. With forensic recovery, you can still "undelete those files" You can read the physical sector and extract the raw info and convert it back to a real file. It may not have the original name but you WILL get a real file back like a missing spreadsheet or image. When you defrag, you just moved data around; overwriting those hidden files.

If you run a schedule a defrag, you will get blind-sighted and your chance of recovery is NILL.

1. If you are running a scheduled defrag, you aren't moving much data each time. Your chances of overwriting the deleted file, or corrupted sector are about the same as when you write a new file.

2.Umm... not true. While it is commonly believed that overwriting data means it is gone for good. This is not the case. There is very little that you can do a drive that would make it completely unrecoverable.

Heck, we had someone recover a drive from a laptop from the bottom of the river. The owner threw it off a boat to keep investigators from accessing what he had on it.

There is almost NOTHING that you can do to make a drive unrecoverable.

 

[byteware]

Im a history graduate and im going to be a secondary school teacher... TVs, DVDs, Sky Boxes completly confuse me, i couldnt set one up or find a fault to save my life, same goes for hi fis and setting up speakers that arnt for my pc!

However i can build a PC, find and fix hardware/software issues on my Desire or PC, have a laptop running linux and generally use the lastest tech with no problems.

TV is outdated tech so i just dont get it, doesnt mean my university failed me

I'm going to call BS. No way you are skilled enough to build a PC, and cannot plug the red wire into the red socket, the coax into the coax port, or the HDMI cable into the HDMI port.

 

[toasty]

I never said anything about enjoying it. If you don't want to have issues then you have to do what needs to be done, simple. Why buy Windows PCs to begin with then? Just stick with Macs if you're that lazy. Because that's what it really boils down to, laziness.

Not necessarily laziness, no, just different priorities. I've got a job, a wife, and a 16 month old daughter hell bent on the destruction of my home. I've also got season tickets to the Cardinals, a host of hobbies, and I'm active in the community. The last thing I want to do in the scant minutes of free time I'm able to salvage is mess around with a PC just to keep it running as it should, particularly when there are alternatives that don't require that level of hand-holding. Is that worth the price differential between a mac and a PC? Hell yeah, it is.

 

[darreno1]

Not necessarily laziness, no, just different priorities. I've got a job, a wife, and a 16 month old daughter hell bent on the destruction of my home. I've also got season tickets to the Cardinals, a host of hobbies, and I'm active in the community. The last thing I want to do in the scant minutes of free time I'm able to salvage is mess around with a PC just to keep it running as it should, particularly when there are alternatives that don't require that level of hand-holding. Is that worth the price differential between a mac and a PC? Hell yeah, it is.

LOL. If you've been following the thread, you'd see this isn't much of an excuse considering most of it can be automated. Even so, how much time would a bi-weekly 'tune-up' really take away from your 'busy' schedule?

 

[raqball]

Back on topic here... I think every device ect has fanboys... iPhone fanboys hate any device not an iPhone and Android fanboys hate anything not android...

I happen to love them both! My iPhone 3GS ROCKS!!!!! I have beta OS 4 on it now and it is pretty darn sweet... I can't wait to get my paws on the EVO tomorrow (I am switching from the iPhone 3GS for it)...

I happen to love MAC's... I have 2 macbook pro's, one macbook, and an iMac... I also have a Win7 PC....

Fanboys are just that... Unreasonable and stuck with blinders on... Both the iPhone OS and the Android OS have pluses and minuses... BUT in the end both ROCK and it's just a matter of user preference... I won't degrade anyone who has and likes the device they carry.... Even if it's WinMobile......

 

[toasty]

LOL. If you've been following the thread, you'd see this isn't much of an excuse considering most of it can be automated. Even so, how much time would a bi-weekly 'tune-up' really take away from your 'busy' schedule?

Well, it's not an "excuse," because that would imply that I've done something for which an excuse is appropriate, more an explanation as why bucking up a couple hundred dollars more for a mac seems like money well spent to me. You know, even if it can be automated, I've still got to identify and download the software to automate it, or at least set the included software to do it. If it's necessary for the OS to run properly, maybe the makers of the OS ought to see to it that it does it on its own, anyway. Wait, I think there are some that do.

Regardless, if taking a bi-weekly break from whatever the hell you do with your time to bring your computer back to the baseline brings you a sense of accomplishment or otherwise enriches your life, mazel tov. For me, I'd prefer to focus on things I'd like to do than things I need to do. To each their own, though.

 

[darreno1]

Well, it's not an "excuse," because that would imply that I've done something for which an excuse is appropriate, more an explanation as why bucking up a couple hundred dollars more for a mac seems like money well spent to me. You know, even if it can be automated, I've still got to identify and download the software to automate it, or at least set the included software to do it. If it's necessary for the OS to run properly, maybe the makers of the OS ought to see to it that it does it on its own, anyway. Wait, I think there are some that do.

Regardless, if taking a bi-weekly break from whatever the hell you do with your time to bring your computer back to the baseline brings you a sense of accomplishment or otherwise enriches your life, mazel tov. For me, I'd prefer to focus on things I'd like to do than things I need to do. To each their own, though.

Actually it IS an excuse for not doing what you should be. Hey if you don't want to do it, no one can force you. But I'm over here still baffled as to why you bought PCs to begin with, given your thought process.

 

[byteware]

Yes. you are correct. The problem is the scheduled defrags. If you deleted on Monday (and didn't realize it), defrag every night on a schedule, chances by Friday, the file is forever gone. People don't realize they lost the files (often days and weeks later).

I was thinking about this on my way into work this morning... bad day, needed something else to think about...

Anyways, if they accidentally delete something... it will be in the trash.

Windows soft deletes, and you are required to go through and do a permanent delete in order to actually delete it.

So, even if they accidentally delete something, then it will still be there. Unless, of course, they accidentally delete it twice.

 

[toasty]

But I'm over here still baffled as to why you bought PCs to begin with, given your thought process.

That's a fair question. I'm an attorney, and the reality is that everything in the legal realm was PC-focused for a long time. A lot of the cases I've worked on have online document depositories that are accessed through proprietary, Windows-only software, and most every law firm you're likely to encounter uses Windows in-house. With that in mind, having a PC was a matter of necessity. One of my PCs, the oldest one (desktop), was purchased back before I was aware that running Windows on a mac on actually a viable, useful option.

Another of the PCs is my wife's work computer (laptop). She doesn't have a lot of control over that, it's what they give her and it includes a lot of software that she needs for her job.

The other PC desktop I purchased almost immediately after Vista came out, and it was purchased to be a dedicated media center that was attached to a big screen in our media room. There were four primary reasons I bought it: (1) I had heard good things about Vista (remember, this is shortly after it came out) and wanted to try it out, (2) it had Lightscribe, which I wanted, (3) it was going to be used primarily as a media center, so there wasn't really a need to pay Mac prices when I wouldn't be using it for day-to-day computing, and (4) I planned to run arcade emulators like MAME and Daphne to it, and the front ends available for PCs were much more robust as compared to their Mac equivalents.

Finally, I recently picked up a netbook for my wife to use for couch websurfing, since her work computer is slow and extremely temperamental. Again, given what she needed it for, paying Mac prices didn't seem like a good use of money. I hindsight, I kinda wish I'd bucked up for a low-end macbook, because it's prohibitively slow at times.

As you can see, I have no problem with the idea that PCs have their time and place, and I'm not looking to unnecessarily harp on them. The point is, though, that I've got a lot of experience using both OSes, and 9 times out of 10, I'll reach for my Mac unless there's a specific reason that a PC is a better option (i.e., I want to watch a movie and there's already a PC hooked up that TV) on that occasion.

 

[toasty]

Here's a good analogy: the PCs are the beat-up pickup trucks that we keep around to do the grunt work, the MacBook is the convertible Benz that we take out for a spin when the weather's nice.

 

[IOWA]

Here's a good analogy: the PCs are the beat-up pickup trucks that we keep around to do the grunt work, the MacBook is the convertible Benz that we take out for a spin when the weather's nice.

Lol a benz? naw benz's have great engines (hardware)