What the heck is the deal with iphone users Vs Android users

[Niir]

I think you're forgetting what the general population is like. Not everyone is technologically competent, and people are lazy and don't want to put in the time. Does this make them better or worse than those that are good with technology/electronics? No, it just makes them different and their priorities different.

Some people want something thats easy to use, and there's nothing wrong with that. The ease of use does make them top of the line, for some people.

android is as simple or as complex as u want it to be. My mum will use her desire simply, where as i use every crazy ass techie app that i find and customize to the n th degree.

with the iphone you get no choice, no say, no flexability and you PAY MORE for those privileges.

if the iphone was priced to reflect its market, uses, software and hardware i would have no problem with it/apple, but it is priced as a high end device when it just is not.

 

[IOWA]

If you built the PC's yourself, why would you need to be on the phone with Microsoft when they simply supplied the software? Either you didn't do any

I think he is referring to the deficiency of Window OS. Windows had a lot of catching up to do to reach parity with *nix type OSes.

For example, I remember a few years back, you couldn't run Photoshop and use more than 3GB or RAM on Windows. There were instability issues.
So in this perfect example, would you still call Macs a computer w/ training wheels? I don't know if this is the case now with Win7 but this was a constant problem that plagued me before.

I've had Dell Windows Servers that had 4GB of memory on the motherboard and the OS only used 3GB. Google this if you don't believe me.Google "Windows 8GB or 4GB RAM limit"

Furthermore, Macs, because of their FreeBSD/Unix roots allow you to run and compile apps that take advantage of multi-cores, 64bit addressing long before Win7. Vista was horrible in this regards. I still hear of major issues with 64-bit apps on Win7. Specifically apps like Maya (high end 3D modelling app used for practically every movie special effect).

Then there is the issue of the filesystem which I won' get into. Even though Windows has NTFS, some apps on Windows couldn't write more than 2GB. Again, these are problems if you are doing something like Video, high-end imaging. Or those industry "training wheels" like you mentioned.

As for writing files larger than 2gb, this is simply untrue. I know for a fact ripping (which creates a new file) image files in excess of 2gb to get sent to our large format printer.

As for ram, I remember something like this, but I also remember you could rewrite a setting and fix it.

EDIT:

Ok thought you were refering to something else, but what your talking about is a limitation of all 32bit processors, and not just windows.

http://www.brianmadden.com/blogs/brianmadden/archive/2004/02/19/the-4gb-windows-memory-limit-what-does-it-really-mean.aspx

Tapatalk. Samsung Moment. Yep.

 

[mrspeedmaster]

As for writing files larger than 2gb, this is simply untrue. I know for a fact ripping (which creates a new file) image files in excess of 2gb to get sent to our large format printer.

I said "some" apps which in this case is "most apps." There are some exceptions but most the apps in written were written with FAT32.

Ill give you some examples:
Avid 2GB limit. Avid is used by every tv news station in the US and many video-houses:
Export to AVI - Max Size reached - Avid Video Community
Google: Premier 2GB AVI limit.

I can post more examples of 2GB limit for Professional apps.
Also google why the 2GB problems for just video. Even if you could export more than 2GB in the app, the codec for the video may not support it. So you were just asking for trouble and corrupt files.

As for ram, I remember something like this, but I also remember you could rewrite a setting and fix it.

No, you couldn't. YOu had to buy certain versions of Windows;mostly Server versions. Here is a list and info on PAE 64 bit addressing:

Physical Address Extension - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Look at the max memory chart for windows. Most of them are 4GB.

OSX had 64 bit with extensions a looooong time now. With Snow Leopard, the kernel is fully 64 bit.


Here are adobe notes on memory for Windows:
Optimize performance of Photoshop CS3 on Windows XP and Vista

Basically if you had 32bit win, you were out of luck.
If you had 64 bit win (Which caused instability w/ other apps/issues), there were also lots of gotchas.

Again, OSX had none of these problems.

 

[darreno1]

I think he is referring to the deficiency of Window OS. Windows had a lot of catching up to do to reach parity with *nix type OSes.

For example, I remember a few years back, you couldn't run Photoshop and use more than 3GB or RAM on Windows. There were instability issues.
So in this perfect example, would you still call Macs a computer w/ training wheels? I don't know if this is the case now with Win7 but this was a constant problem that plagued me before.

I've had Dell Windows Servers that had 4GB of memory on the motherboard and the OS only used 3GB. Google this if you don't believe me.Google "Windows 8GB or 4GB RAM limit"

Furthermore, Macs, because of their FreeBSD/Unix roots allow you to run and compile apps that take advantage of multi-cores, 64bit addressing long before Win7. Vista was horrible in this regards. I still hear of major issues with 64-bit apps on Win7. Specifically apps like Maya (high end 3D modelling app used for practically every movie special effect).

Then there is the issue of the filesystem which I won' get into. Even though Windows has NTFS, some apps on Windows couldn't write more than 2GB. Again, these are problems if you are doing something like Video, high-end imaging. Or those industry "training wheels" like you mentioned.

32 bit Windows flavors are generally limited to 4 gigs of ram. Windows xp 32 bit had a flaw where it only showed 3-3.5 gigs with 4 gigs installed. The x64 bit version, Vista and Win7 32/64-bit have no such issues.

I have no idea where you're getting your info from but Win7 64-bit can support up to 192 gigs of ram. Most of the 'problems' you're referring to have been resolved years ago. And yes Win7 is every bit as capable and then some compared to OSX. If there are limitations it's more than likely with a specific app.

OSX in terms of security is probably ranked below Windows 7 as up until recently it was able to be hacked in minutes.

 

[darreno1]

I said "some" apps which in this case is "most apps." There are some exceptions but most the apps in written were written with FAT32.

Ill give you some examples:
Avid 2GB limit. Avid is used by every tv news station in the US and many video-houses:
Export to AVI - Max Size reached - Avid Video Community
Google: Premier 2GB AVI limit.

I can post more examples of 2GB limit for Professional apps.
Also google why the 2GB problems for just video. Even if you could export more than 2GB in the app, the codec for the video may not support it. So you were just asking for trouble and corrupt files.



No, you couldn't. YOu had to buy certain versions of Windows;mostly Server versions. Here is a list and info on PAE 64 bit addressing:

Physical Address Extension - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Look at the max memory chart for windows. Most of them are 4GB.

OSX had 64 bit with extensions a looooong time now. With Snow Leopard, the kernel is fully 64 bit.


Here are adobe notes on memory for Windows:
Optimize performance of Photoshop CS3 on Windows XP and Vista

Basically if you had 32bit win, you were out of luck.
If you had 64 bit win (Which caused instability w/ other apps/issues), there were also lots of gotchas.

Again, OSX had none of these problems.

You're talking in the past. Anybody serious about video editing or any other high end application using Windows will opt for a 64-bit flavor which has been available for years (since '05).

 

[mrspeedmaster]

I have no idea where you're getting your info from but Win7 64-bit can support up to 192 gigs of ram. Most of the 'problems' you're referring to have been resolved years ago. And yes Win7 is every bit as capable and then some compared to OSX. If there are limitations it's more than likely with a specific app..

Yeah, I know Win7 has made some progress. I was just answering Rota why people would prefer to use OSX. It is not people jump platforms every year for a new OS. I also agree with memory issue is related to apps and how they handle them.

The point I was making is that in the past 5 years,if you were a power user, you wouldn't have any of the Windows 64/32 bit memory issues on the "computer that is a training wheel" as Rota likes to put it.'

I remember dual booting XP32 and XP64 on the same machine because XP64 had some problems with certain 32bit only apps. In fact, it was slower. During the same time, running OSX, I didn't have to worry about a lousy file limit/memory issues. Things just work. I guess because they just work in a professional environment, it makes them lesser than a gamer who likes to tweak his rig?

Competition is good. Win7 is finally catching up. Also, Apple doesn't sit still either. Snow Leopard is 64 bit down to the kernel for all macs. No Premium, Home editions.

You're talking in the past. Anybody serious about video editing or any other high end application using Windows will opt for a 64-bit flavor which has been available for years (since '05).

The Avid link I posted was from this year. Problems still exist.
Funny thing, people are using Quicktime to fix their exporting issues on Windows.

 

[darreno1]

Yeah, I know Win7 has made some progress. I was just answering Rota why people would prefer to use OSX. It is not people jump platforms every year for a new OS. I also agree with memory issue is related to apps and how they handle them.

The point I was making is that in the past 5 years,if you were a power user, you wouldn't have any of the Windows 64/32 bit memory issues on the "computer that is a training wheel" as Rota likes to put it.'

I remember dual booting XP32 and XP64 on the same machine because XP64 had some problems with certain 32bit only apps. In fact, it was slower. During the same time, running OSX, I didn't have to worry about a lousy file limit/memory issues. Things just work. I guess because they just work in a professional environment, it makes them lesser than a gamer who likes to tweak his rig?

Competition is good. Win7 is finally catching up. Also, Apple doesn't sit still either. Snow Leopard is 64 bit down to the kernel for all macs. No Premium, Home editions.

The 'things just work' slogan is a myth. OSX is full of its own issues. I could dig some up on Google with a little searching. I also think the way it handles printers, shared drives and shortcuts to name a few is horrible. Windows is generally more versatile in terms of app and hardware compatibility and those are the main reasons it will still be number one for a long time.

 

[darreno1]

The Avid link I posted was from this year. Problems still exist.
Funny thing, people are using Quicktime to fix their exporting issues on Windows.

That's an application limitation. Can't blame windows here.

 

[IOWA]

I have no idea where you're getting your info from but Win7 64-bit can support up to 192 gigs of ram. Most of the 'problems' you're referring to have

Yeah, I know Win7 has made some progress. I was just answering Rota why people would prefer to use OSX. It is not people jump platforms every year for a new OS. I also agree with memory issue is related to apps and how they handle them.

The point I was making is that in the past 5 years,if you were a power user, you wouldn't have any of the Windows 64/32 bit memory issues on the "computer that is a training wheel" as Rota likes to put it.'

I remember dual booting XP32 and XP64 on the same machine because XP64 had some problems with certain 32bit only apps. In fact, it was slower. During the same time, running OSX, I didn't have to worry about a lousy file limit/memory issues. Things just work. I guess because they just work in a professional environment, it makes them lesser than a gamer who likes to tweak his rig?

Competition is good. Win7 is finally catching up. Also, Apple doesn't sit still either. Snow Leopard is 64 bit down to the kernel for all macs. No Premium, Home editions.

You're talking in the past. Anybody serious about video editing or any other high end application using Windows will opt for a 64-bit flavor which has

The Avid link I posted was from this year. Problems still exist.
Funny thing, people are using Quicktime to fix their exporting issues on Windows.

Dammit slow down. You post too fast. I was in the middle of editing my post and 4 more appear!
(Doesn't help that I'm half-working lol)

But yeah as for the memory issues I thought you were talking about soething that could be fixed with a boot.ini edit, which I actually used for photoshop cs2. I did 1kernal/3app setting.

Tapatalk. Samsung Moment. Yep.

 

[mrspeedmaster]

The 'things just work' moniker is a myth. OSX is full of its own issues. I could dig some up on Google with a little searching. I also think the way it handles printers, shared drives and shortcuts to name a few is horrible. Windows is generally more versatile in terms of app and hardware compatibility and those are the main reasons it will still be number one for a long time.

Sure, every OS has problems. I never said anything was perfect. For me, for my job, my use, it works. It works for my needs and I can easily justify it. To say it "is a training wheel" or "overpriced" without understanding the os/platform/target audience is naive.

As far as printers, shares, symbolic links, you may not be accustom to how the OS works. I know people who get frustrated because they don't understand how to mount a volume. That is not a problem but an issue of familiarity. I guess, to you, "C:\" is intuitive. To me, "/Volumes/" is more intuitive because I use Unix. To me, OSX is the most intuitive Unix based OS. It is the desktop Unix OS yet at the same time, it is easy for users who don't know Unix.

 

[IOWA]

The 'things just work' moniker is a myth. OSX is full of its own issues. I could dig some up on Google with a little searching. I also think the way i

Sure, every OS has problems. I never said anything was perfect. For me, for my job, my use, it works. It works for my needs and I can easily justify it. To say it "is a training wheel" or "overpriced" without understanding the os/platform/target audience is naive.

As far as printers, shares, symbolic links, you may not be accustom to how the OS works. I know people who get frustrated because they don't understand how to mount a volume. That is not a problem but an issue of familiarity. I guess, to you, "C:\" is intuitive. To me, "/Volumes/" is more intuitive because I use Unix. To me, OSX is the most intuitive Unix based OS. It is the desktop Unix OS yet at the same time, it is easy for users who don't know Unix.

So wait, you'd rather use osx vs solaris or other *nix's?

But I can attest for a fact, osx doesn't translate well to some printers, especially large commercial printers.

EDIT:

Also, the menu structure on osx drives me bonkers. The dock simply isn't good enough if you have loads of programs. And the osx 'finder' file viewer doesn't appeal to me either. Then again I don't like the vista/win7 versions either.

Tapatalk. Samsung Moment. Yep.

 

[mrspeedmaster]

That's an application limitation. Can't blame windows here.

If you read what I said, I said "some apps" and acknowledge NTFS support for larger files. At the same time, you said, 'if anyone is serious... would be using 64 bit win.' That reply is simply dismissive without acknowledging the strength of OSX. Your follow-up retort is about viruses.

So if the best video, industry standard editing, app - AVID has problems with Windows. You blame the app. Fine, I can accept that.
However, because it is almost the de-facto standard & it works fine in OSX. What do you choose? a mac. Or is this too alien for some people to accept. If xxxyyy certain runs better on a mac, wouldn't it be logical to use a mac?

I don't understand the combativeness.


I don't understand why people can't accept the fact, macs are tailored and suited for certain type of work. They happen to just work better in certain environments. Like with Linux. I use Linux LAMP because it is cheaper and better. I would never run PHP/MYSQL on a OS box nor would I run it in Windows. Before Front Row/PLEX, I preferred running Windows for my home theater set-up.

 

[darreno1]

Sure, every OS has problems. I never said anything was perfect. For me, for my job, my use, it works. It works for my needs and I can easily justify it. To say it "is a training wheel" or "overpriced" without understanding the os/platform/target audience is naive.

As far as printers, shares, symbolic links, you may not be accustom to how the OS works. I know people who get frustrated because they don't understand how to mount a volume. That is not a problem but an issue of familiarity. I guess, to you, "C:\" is intuitive. To me, "/Volumes/" is more intuitive because I use Unix. To me, OSX is the most intuitive Unix based OS. It is the desktop Unix OS yet at the same time, it is easy for users who don't know Unix.

If I wanted to run a friendly unix based OS, I'd take Ubuntu over OSX but that's just me. I can totally understand that it's your choice and that's what you chose but to gloat about its advantages over Windows will certainly ignite a serious debate. As for Macs in general, I wouldn't exactly call them training wheels (although they seem to be marketed as such) because in reality they aren't very intuitive (imo), however, I do agree that they are overpriced for what they are.

 

[mrspeedmaster]

So wait, you'd rather use osx vs solaris or other *nix's?

Depends on the use. For dedicated general purpose stuff (servers, firewalls/routers) , I choose Linux because of cost. I won't deny that you can get a 1U dell rack cheap. I never denied that. I use Solaris because I have to and I admire how the OS was built and familiarity. I love Irix because I love SGI but that is a dead OS very much like Amiga OS, BeOS are dead.

However, OSX is the best compromise right now.

OSX is the best compromise because it is also a desktop OS. .
I can run Photoshop w/out emulation. I have a real video editing app yet at the same time, I can fire up the shell and run Unix apps. PHP and MYQL is very close to Linux. So whatever I do in OSX, I can put in Linux and have little to zero changes. I also run Win2003 server/FreeBSD/Chrome OS/Android x86/Ubuntu9/10 on my mac w/ Parallels.

I tried and force myself to use Ubuntu 9.10 for 4-5 months because I have a fast Dell Workstation. I can use it and actually like it but it doesn't have the slickness of OSX that I look for. I can't explain it. I guess little things like 1/2 baked VPN, missing codecs, trying to get OpenOffice to open certain docs, and little things like that bother me.

When I was running Windows, I was always running cygwin/x11. I was running more apps to make Windows like Unix when I should just be running a real *nix OS. I even had KDE take over my Windows desktop in cygwin.

 

[darreno1]

If you read what I said, I said "some apps" and acknowledge NTFS support for larger files. At the same time, you said, 'if anyone is serious... would be using 64 bit win.' That reply is simply dismissive without acknowledging the strength of OSX. Your follow-up retort is about viruses.

Windows 7 64-bit like Vista and like Windows XP 64-bit have no problems running most 32-bit apps. I've used them all extensively and they pretty much supported everything I threw at them. Microsoft just decided to give people a choice based on their use by having 32bit only and home versions. I don't see that as a disadvantage. Why should someone pay more for features they won't ever use? It's not me being dismissive, it's just me looking at things logically.

So if the best video, industry standard editing, app - AVID has problems with Windows. You blame the app. Fine, I can accept that.
However, because it is almost the de-facto standard & it works fine in OSX. What do you choose? a mac. Or is this too alien for some people to accept. If xxxyyy certain runs better on a mac, wouldn't it be logical to use a mac?

I don't understand the combativeness.


I don't understand why people can't accept the fact, macs are tailored and suited for certain type of work. They happen to just work better in certain environments. Like with Linux. I use Linux LAMP because it is cheaper and better. I would never run PHP/MYSQL on a OS box nor would I run it in Windows. Before Front Row/PLEX, I preferred running Windows for my home theater set-up.

If an app is the limitation because they refuse to support the newer OSs then to say OSX is better tailored makes little sense. Yeah it might make more sense to choose the OS that an app runs better on, however, to chastise the other OS because the lazy developers chose not to support it (for some ******ed reason) isn't fair.

 

[IOWA]

So wait, you'd rather use osx vs solaris or other *nix's?

Depends on the use. For dedicated general purpose stuff (servers, firewalls/routers) , I choose Linux because of cost. I won't deny that you can get a 1U dell rack cheap. I never denied that. I use Solaris because I have to and I admire how the OS was built and familiarity. I love Irix because I love SGI but that is a dead OS very much like Amiga OS, BeOS are dead.

However, OSX is the best compromise right now.

OSX is the best compromise because it is also a desktop OS. .
I can run Photoshop w/out emulation. I have a real video editing app yet at the same time, I can fire up the shell and run Unix apps. PHP and MYQL is very close to Linux. So whatever I do in OSX, I can put in Linux and have little to zero changes. I also run Win2003 server/FreeBSD/Chrome OS/Android x86/Ubuntu9/10 on my mac w/ Parallels.

I tried and force myself to use Ubuntu 9.10 for 4-5 months because I have a fast Dell Workstation. I can use it and actually like it but it doesn't have the slickness of OSX that I look for. I can't explain it. I guess little things like 1/2 baked VPN, missing codecs, trying to get OpenOffice to open certain docs, and little things like that bother me.

When I was running Windows, I was always running cygwin/x11. I was running more apps to make Windows like Unix when I should just be running a real *nix OS. I even had KDE take over my Windows desktop in cygwin.

Hmph. Well for me, id rather have a win7/ubuntu setup.

What's your take on quantum computing =D

Also, I'm going to have to agree with the fact the it is more the apps fault rather than os. For the longest time(as I mentioned before) adobe only supported mac, and now, it supports windows, and actually runs better on windows due to being able to use better hardware & hardware acceleration. Why wouldn't the same apply to AVID? If they really wanted money, they should push out a win7 version as well.

Tapatalk. Samsung Moment. Yep.

 

[darreno1]

I tried and force myself to use Ubuntu 9.10 for 4-5 months because I have a fast Dell Workstation. I can use it and actually like it but it doesn't have the slickness of OSX that I look for. I can't explain it. I guess little things like 1/2 baked VPN, missing codecs, trying to get OpenOffice to open certain docs, and little things like that bother me.

Isn't that what the repositories are for? I ran open office and had my Ubuntu desktop running almost every app (or an equivalent) I used (even office 2003). I finally gave up because I couldn't quite get my games to function flawlessly. I still have the image somewhere and will fire it up again once I build another box. I had very little issues with missing codecs as they were readily available via the repositories or Google.

 

[mrspeedmaster]

Isn't that what the repositories are for? I had very little issues with missing codecs as they were readily available via the repositories or Google.

I did all that. I even installed the illegal repositories, un-restricted-extras. I felt guilty just so I can play libdvdcss encrypted dvds. You think the avg consumer knows how to do that? Biggest issue for me was VPN,using my Verizon 3g modem, DisplayLink drivers. The same can be true for OSX. There will apps/drivers that don't work w/ certain OS. That is why I don't think Ubuntu is quite there yet. I had to run a shell script in Ubuntu just to do a PPOE connection to my bluetooth modem. Again, do you think the avg consumer knows how to do that?
If OSX has less hardware support than Win, you would think Ubuntu has even less.

Biggest issue is there are apps I use like Lightroom. I also buy new cameras all the time and waiting for someone to develop RAW support for GIMP or anything wasn't going to happen in Ubuntu. Canon/Pansonic/Olympus isn't going to write converters for Linux.

That is why I say it is the best compromise *nix OS.

The discussion is now getting more rational.

Hmph. Well for me, id rather have a win7/ubuntu setup.

Well, my answer is I don't like to re-boot every time I wanted to run a certain thing on a certain os.

On an Android related theme. I found the Android SDK/Eclipse easiest to install and use on OSX. NO need to download USB drivers for certain phones like you would on Windows or Linux. If you notice the Android IO event, all the Google presenters were using..... MacBook Pros. That tells you something.

 

[darreno1]

I did all that. I even installed the illegal repositories, un-restricted-extras. I felt guilty just so I can play libdvdcss encrypted dvds. You think the avg consumer knows how to do that? Biggest issue for me was VPN,using my Verizon 3g modem, DisplayLink drivers. The same can be true for OSX. There will apps/drivers that don't work w/ certain OS. That is why I don't think Ubuntu is quite there yet. I had to run a shell script in Ubuntu just to do a PPOE connection to my bluetooth modem. Again, do you think the avg consumer knows how to do that?
If OSX has less hardware support than Win, you would think Ubuntu has even less.

Biggest issue is there are apps I use like Lightroom. I also buy new cameras all the time and waiting for someone to develop RAW support for GIMP or anything wasn't going to happen in Ubuntu. Canon/Pansonic/Olympus isn't going to write converters for Linux.

That is why I say it is the best compromise *nix OS.

Well in all seriousness, most users won't know how to use a VPN or decrypt a dvd, even on Windows. Also most won't vpn via/to bluetooth. But for photo editing on Ubuntu, a quick search yielded some info:

Recommended Photo Editor for Ubuntu [Archive] - Ubuntu Forums
Needed a simple photo editor for Ubuntu - Windows Software

I haven't played with the latest distro so I can really say what has been added and improved. However, it was impressively user friendly the last time I used it. It only became more challenging when I had to do get certain windows programs to function via wine or when searching for equivalent functionality that was not native but even then, I was usually successful.

 

[mrspeedmaster]

Well in all seriousness, most users won't know how to use a VPN or decrypt a dvd, even on Windows. Also most won't vpn via/to bluetooth. But for photo editing on Ubuntu, a quick search yielded some info:

1) Ubuntu and all Linux distros do not have the libcss libraries. They don't bundle them due to licensing and restrictions. When I say encrypted DVDs, I am referring to commercial DVD movies you buy at Best Buy. All major titles have CSS copy-protection.
You can play them by adding ibdvdread3 libraries to XINE/VLC using the unrestricted repository. It may be illegal in certain jurisdiction.There was a big lawsuit in Norway because some guy provided libcss open-source.
Both Microsoft/Apple paid the licensing so yes, normal users can play CSS encrypted DVDs on Win/OSX. So if you buy a laptop w/ Ubuntu on it, it won't play DVD movies unless you got to the unrestricted repository. Playing DVD is a simple thing.

2) VPN. Most normal users can download a CISCO client for my CISCO firewall, university and corporations. It is just a matter of entering user/name password(s) or use a text config supplied by IT. This is not the case w/ Linux. Again, you need to install something like OpenVPN and hack around. I never said VPN thru bluetooth. Again, things that normal users can do. Their IT gives them a CISCO app, a text file w/ config or they enter in the password/username. This is my biggest beef right now w/ Android. iPhone has CISCO vpn built in and free. If you aren't using Cisco, I am certain you can set up VPN in Windows or Mac with whatever config script your IT supplies you with. For normal users it is just a matter of opening the VPN client and load connection settings, enter user/password.


As for image editing apps. I said "RAW" files. RAW files are uncompressed 16 bit proprietary image files that camera mfgs make. They don't make the converters so you can use them in Linux. You would have to boot into Windows, convert it to TIFF and reboot back to Linux. Every new camera creates new RAW profiles. Adobe and Apple are usually quick to make them or the camera mfg supplies apps that do the conversion.

 

[darreno1]

1) Ubuntu and all Linux distros do not have the libcss libraries. They don't bundle them due to licensing and restrictions. When I say encrypted DVDs, I am referring to commercial DVD movies you buy at Best Buy. All major titles have CSS copy-protection.
You can play them by adding ibdvdread3 libraries to XINE/VLC using the unrestricted repository. It may be illegal in certain jurisdiction.There was a big lawsuit in Norway because some guy provided libcss open-source.
Both Microsoft/Apple paid the licensing so yes, normal users can play CSS encrypted DVDs on Win/OSX. So if you buy a laptop w/ Ubuntu on it, it won't play DVD movies unless you got to the unrestricted repository. Playing DVD is a simple thing.

The point is you can still play them even if you have to get them from another repository. Anyway I thought you were talking about copying encrypted dvds, my bad. I don't see this as being an issue at all. Here's some more recent info:

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats/PlayingDVDs

2) VPN. Most normal users can download a CISCO client for my CISCO firewall, university and corporations. It is just a matter of entering user/name password(s) or use a text config supplied by IT. This is not the case w/ Linux. Again, you need to install something like OpenVPN and hack around. I never said VPN thru bluetooth. Again, things that normal users can do. Their IT gives them a CISCO app, a text file w/ config or they enter in the password/username. This is my biggest beef right now w/ Android. iPhone has CISCO vpn built in and free. If you aren't using Cisco, I am certain you can set up VPN in Windows or Mac with whatever config script your IT supplies you with. For normal users it is just a matter of opening the VPN client and load connection settings, enter user/password.

http://joepcremers.nl/wordpress/?p=1699

You can do it with Ubuntu but of course it's not as turn key but that's not really Ubuntu's fault is it? Many of the it departments we deal with have abandoned the VPN route for Citrix and other remote computing solutions. Quite a few have been using the built-in RDP or encourage their users to use the web based apps like logmein or go to my pc etc. Most of the users I know cannot configure a VPN client to save their life and the IT department (or us)usually ends up configuring it for them. UM is one of those campuses that have gone the Citrix route for most of their users.

Just like Windows and Mac boxes come pre-configured from the factory, so can Ubuntu boxes. It's just that no one has really pushed it. All of the hard work can be done before hand to make a decent out of box experience for casual users while still appealing to power users.

As for image editing apps. I said "RAW" files. RAW files are uncompressed 16 bit proprietary image files that camera mfgs make. They don't make the converters so you can use them in Linux. You would have to boot into Windows, convert it to TIFF and reboot back to Linux. Every new camera creates new RAW profiles. Adobe and Apple are usually quick to make them or the camera mfg supplies apps that do the conversion.

I know what they are (got a Nikon d40) and found tons of info on it. The first link I posted above mentioned a program that supported raw images. Anyway to get raw support in gimp:

Tip: Importing raw images into gimp
nFoundry Editing Nikon RAW files on Ubuntu

 

[mrspeedmaster]

I don't see this as being an issue at all. Here's some more recent info ..

I am very aware of how to install it. Casual users won't be. The restricted extras need to be added to your apt-source list. Casual users won't be googling. My mom sure won't know how to do this. She sure doesn't know how to type in sudo vi ./etc/apt.list to add that restricted repos then type in sudo apt-get install restricted-extras. Yeah, I can do it but how many casual users can? Yeah, I know about synaptics and the gui.
And you discount my point on the legality of it. That link of yours even gives that fore-warning.

Having to go to what Ubuntu calls "restricted-extras" repository is treading on thin legal line: libdvdcss - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Many GNU/Linux distributions do not contain libdvdcss (for example Debian, Fedora, SUSE Linux, and Ubuntu) due to fears of running afoul of DMCA-style laws, however they may provide the tools to let the user install it themselves

Just like Windows and Mac boxes come pre-configured from the factory, so can Ubuntu boxes. It's just that no one has really pushed it.

Same thing for Cisco VPN. Someone needs to step up to plate and pay the licensing and since linux is free, what organization is going to pay a royalty and not make money on it. The only way that will work is if HP/Dell ships Ubuntu and adds a package that covers all these royalties. So, I don't think anyone is going to push it when there is costs involve.

All of the hard work can be done before hand to make a decent out of box experience for casual users while still appealing to power users.

That is exactly why I use a Mac. Your quote hits it on the spot. I can make nice looking slideshows w/ iPhoto a DVD from my vacation by plugging in a firewire cable. Then when I have to work, I can get raw in the command line and maybe try to write an Android app or two. I think I gave two excellent examples of why it is not ready for prime-time. Like in my original posts, its these little things that just sort of adds up to being a hassle. I can get VPN, DVD and all the stuff I raised. I don't need you to google a link for me. I'm just saying it is a hassle. I even had a routine of how I installed Linux; keeping all the deb pkgs backed up and installing in sequence because of dependency issues.

As for RAW... Again,

Maybe I should be clearer: I buy new cameras all the time. I have an aversion to gadgets/acquiring new toys.

Each time a new camera comes out; Nikon/Canon/Whoever usually create a new RAW profile. Those new profiles simply don't work with existing RAW converters/importers.

You have to wait till someone makes the import profiles. In the case of Linux, it may be never or 6-9 months down the road. By that time, I'm already on to my next camera. I wish camera companies stick to one format like Leica. Stick with dng instead of .raw, .cr2, .orf, .nef or whatever. With Adobe, the wait is about 1-2 months, In the meantime, you use whatever converter the camera company supply you to convert them to dng/tiffs.

So your Nikon works fine and dandy today in GIMP. There is no guarantee the next model 2 years down the road will work when Nikon decides to add something to their RAW format.

 

[OldMetalDad]

It is sad that people get so bent out of shape over all this stuff. I own a Macbook Pro and an iPod Touch, but I don't consider myself an Apple fanboy at all. I don't think anybody really gives a crap what product I'm using, and I sure as heck am not worried about my "cool" factor. I find the "Apple can do no wrong" crowd as annoying as many people, but the anti-Apple people can be just as bad. I just wish people on both sides wouldn't get so crazed - it really turns out like a discussion on religion or politics.

 

[Wooby]

Apple Introduces Revolutionary New Laptop With No Keyboard | The Onion - America's Finest News Source | Onion News Network

This video summarizes apple fanboys completely.

 

[IOWA]

Why not use .jpg or .gif instead of raw/tiff?

















Just kidding just kidding...........