Will You Upgrade (Evo 3D)

[EarlyMon]

EarlyMon is saying Froyo made his task intensive phone more efficient but he can't provide any proof. I gave people the usage of my battery and nothing changed.

I don't recall being asked for proof so I don't appreciate the idea that I make claims that cannot be substantiated.

Note the vid here on the JIT compiler:

YouTube - Android 2.2 Official Video

Note that here's how variable-speed processors work: when they run faster, they consume more power. By definition and by design.

If tasks take less time to complete, they use less power. If a task is maxing the cpu - as shown in red screens on Google's example - it's using max power. If a task takes the same time to complete, but operates exactly with the same effectiveness and smoothness to the user, but runs at a lower clock speed while doing so, it uses less power.

I monitor my clock often and profile my system usage with System Panel.

My phone goes to max frequency much less often with Froyo than it did for Eclair.

My web browsing is quite different than yours. The amount of time and processing requiring for web page loads depends on the web content itself. I experienced an increase in web browsing time for Froyo.

A number of people did not experience performance changes with Froyo. The majority did.

But that's not the heart of the issue, this is:

Your claims do not override basic engineering tenets. Software design can significantly impact battery life on a mobile device - and frequently does.

 

[Internetpilot]

I've seen plenty of down/up sized ports but they always have gfx glitches. Some images might be scalable .9's but the ones that aren't need manual editing or replacing and there is a few thousand files to edit.

Also look at the ports we got awhile back from the Desire Z, they were the same resolution so no editing had to be done but look how long it took for them to get everything working. Almost 2 months. Evo 3D will have a even newer version of Sense probably requiring lots of kernel differences from the 4G, that stuff can take a long time to fix.

I'm all for having the newest firmware on my 4G even though I'm gonna have the 3D, but it takes a lot more work and time then your giving.

Actually, it's already out (leaked) and being cooked into a ROM by Virus. So far, everything important is working -- 4G, WiFi, front/rear camera, etc. I think it's now down to what you were talking about -- the cosmetic and graphic resolution tweaking. But even in its current Alpha state, I'm personally surprised at how much is working. We'll see.

At the speed things seem to be going with this leaked ROM, it might be good to go *BEFORE* the 3D is released. Something I'm sure HTC won't be too happy about (as that's what they're probably waiting for with an OTA update for the EVO).

 

[CriticalCritic]

EarlyMon is saying Froyo made his task intensive phone more efficient but he can't provide any proof. I gave people the usage of my battery and nothing changed.

Here's a quick and simple question. Do you concede that software can make a battery LESS efficient?
If no, then I can see where you are coming from (canoeing down denial).
If yes, then I ask you, why can't the opposite be true?

It appears that you don't use the phone for much more than what the 'fixed cost' of battery drain would be (the amount that is required just for keeping the phone turned on, or just observing something that has a static impact on your phone [improving this would likely require changes in hardware, such as the type of screen]). Just because you didn't see a drastic improvement doesn't mean that there haven't been drastic improvements in battery efficiency relating to the active use of the phone (as Earlymon pointed out).

 

[Evulution]

Here's a quick and simple question. Do you concede that software can make a battery LESS efficient?
If no, then I can see where you are coming from (canoeing down denial).
If yes, then I ask you, why can't the opposite be true?

It appears that you don't use the phone for much more than what the 'fixed cost' of battery drain would be (the amount that is required just for keeping the phone turned on, or just observing something that has a static impact on your phone [improving this would likely require changes in hardware, such as the type of screen]). Just because you didn't see a drastic improvement doesn't mean that there haven't been drastic improvements in battery efficiency relating to the active use of the phone (as Earlymon pointed out).

You sound like you don't know what you are talking about. I don't care what you guys are saying about software making a phone's battery more efficient because you haven't shown any proof. If the battery idles the same and gets the same drainage using the same apps then there wasn't anything done to make the battery more efficient. Nobody in my industry says we need to make the planes more efficient on gas so lets start with the software. The battery in my Accord is more efficient because Honda upgraded my software...BS. What about if they upgraded the software for gas? Hell no, that doesn't work either. Nothing has changed in regard to battery consumption on the EVO. I could really care less about the code world. The world is black/white. Either the OS did something to improve battery life or it didn't. Everyone is saying it didn't.

 

[Slug]

I don't care what you guys are saying about software making a phone's battery more efficient because you haven't shown any proof.

Why should you require any? Your experience differs.... fine. That doesn't automatically negate that of other users.

Nobody in my industry says we need to make the planes more efficient on gas so lets start with the software.

Actually, this is exactly what happened with automobile engines when fuel-injecton systems became electronic.... the fuel/air mixtures were able to be much better optimised resulting in less wasted fuel.

The battery in my Accord is more efficient because Honda upgraded my software...

Your automobile isn't powered by the battery, so this analogy is spurious. Substitute "engine" for "battery however and it's perfectly feasible. And please stop with the "BS" comments - that is downright insulting to other contributors.

I could really care less about the code world.

In that case I would suggest that your continued participation in a thread discussing the subtlties of software code will only lead to frustration and misunderstanding. Your own personal experience/opinion is perfectly valid, but rubbishing those of others because they don't tally is disrespectful and illogical, especially when offered by those who have extensive knowledge of the very "code world" that you profess to caring less about.

 

[Evulution]

Why should you require any? Your experience differs.... fine. That doesn't automatically negate that of other users.



Actually, this is exactly what happened with automobile engines when fuel-injecton systems became electronic.... the fuel/air mixtures were able to be much better optimised resulting in less wasted fuel.



Your automobile isn't powered by the battery, so this analogy is spurious. Substitute "engine" for "battery however and it's perfectly feasible. And please stop with the "BS" comments - that is downright insulting to other contributors.



In that case I would suggest that your continued participation in a thread discussing the subtlties of software code will only lead to frustration and misunderstanding. Your own personal experience/opinion is perfectly valid, but rubbishing those of others because they don't tally is disrespectful and illogical, especially when offered by those who have extensive knowledge of the very "code world" that you profess to caring less about.

First off, electronic fuel injectors on a car are not run by software and neither are the ones in planes! Having an electronic fuel injector does not require software. If you took a car apart you would know this.

Dude, if you don't have a battery in your car then it won't start! A car is powered by the battery! Don't know what books you have been reading or how much time you have spent under the hood of a car or an aircraft but what you said makes no sense. The alternator is what keeps the battery charged. Like a generator in a plane keeps the battery in a plane charged. I can start a plane with a power cart and fly the plane off of the generators. But if the generators die, I won't have a battery to power essential equipment. Software runs the avionics systems and I control the consumption of gas with the power levers just like you control the gas in a car with the pedal. Your analogy does not float!

 

[BenChase7]

Actually, reciprocating aircraft don't need a battery or an alternator (they haven't used generators in decades on recip's BTW) to keep the engine running. The engine, via magnito's, produce a spark without any external source of power. Turbine engines also do not need any external source of electricity to produce combustion once started.
Don't want to start a war, so let's just get back to the EVO.

 

[bvbull200]

You sound like you don't know what you are talking about. I don't care what you guys are saying about software making a phone's battery more efficient because you haven't shown any proof. If the battery idles the same and gets the same drainage using the same apps then there wasn't anything done to make the battery more efficient. Nobody in my industry says we need to make the planes more efficient on gas so lets start with the software. The battery in my Accord is more efficient because Honda upgraded my software...BS. What about if they upgraded the software for gas? Hell no, that doesn't work either. Nothing has changed in regard to battery consumption on the EVO. I could really care less about the code world. The world is black/white. Either the OS did something to improve battery life or it didn't. Everyone is saying it didn't.

 

[bvbull200]

Here's a quick and simple question. Do you concede that software can make a battery LESS efficient?
If no, then I can see where you are coming from (canoeing down denial).
If yes, then I ask you, why can't the opposite be true?

Hey Evulution...answer these questions. They will help us figure out they likelihood that you will get what everyone else is saying (I'm going with slim).

Here is another, on your phone, would your battery life be better or worse if the CPU was pegged at 1 GHz for EVERY task that you performed?

 

[EarlyMon]

Your automobile isn't powered by the battery, so this analogy is spurious.

Dude, if you don't have a battery in your car then it won't start! A car is powered by the battery!

Unless you've ever been the victim of battery theft and you have an old stick shift model. In such a case, put it in first, roll the car, pop the clutch - it starts and will drive you to your nearest battery store for a replacement.

As for car engines not utilizing software for control - perhaps. But perhaps a few have had their electronic injectors controlled by Freescale cpus and firmware wrapped into a hardened epoxy package.

As for engineering credentials, you mentioned avionics software - for about a decade I was present at the PDR and CDR for all USAF avionics upgrades and new system deployments - as the avionics software and mission command and control expert (for manned and autonomous systems) for AFWL, AFOTEC, and various SPOs (of course, not all at the same time).

The idea that software can impact computer power consumption is a simple matter of control theory and is more than well known.

Perhaps you've seen the movie Apollo 13, or perhaps you're aware of or have been briefed as to how power allocation works in missile guidance systems, and what's required to maintain power budgets as a function of nav updates and cpu load.

Either example will do - kinda overboard, as this is just a phone tho.

I don't care what you guys are saying about software making a phone's battery more efficient because you haven't shown any proof.

I have - even posted a movie and explained why.

You simply choose to reject that as proof. Your opinion is not on firm engineering footing - but you're entitled to it, as Slug pointed out already.

Now - we've both had our say, I suggest we get back on topic. If you want the last word, fine - take ONE last word - but after that gang, let's please just move on, as this is clearly becoming an endless loop.

So - who's thinking of upgrading to the Evo 3D?

 

[BenChase7]

I Am!

 

[EarlyMon]

Me too!

 

[Kelmar]

Enough already.


On topic NOW please! Drop the personal vendetta and discuss the topic of the thread.

 

[Putty]

I'll upgrade if I can get it for the subsidized price.

 

[Stubby1]

Well with all the different time out there I am betting that the developers will get us something. I can get a new phone every day. Currently running kingsrom rc5. I would recomend cm7.

 

[carterlite]

Like Internetpilot above, I've only had my Evo a couple months. I went from an Instinct to the Pre to the Evo so I feel I've got a whole new world to explore. After a year or so, when I start getting bored of the phone, I figure I'll root at that time and it'll be a whole new toy. I'm not big into gaming so I foresee the Evo exceeding my needs for quite a while.

 

[flyjbaker]

Oh man, I worked hard on that post!!!!


EVO 3D FTW!!!!

 

[twospirits]

let me explain something here folks. There are rules we go by as well as a no tolerance policy against members attacking members. At times, the staff will give a break and redirect those back on track, at times it will take more drastic measure. Quite a few staff members have already made this aware. I am here to tell you that if I see another member attacking another that I will take the drastic step route.

So cut the crap, get back on topic or this thread will be shut down, and the offenders given time off (a lot of time off).

Remember attack the message, not the messenger.

Final warning.

TS out

 

[JunBringer]

I just read that overseas they're getting the 3D on (I think it was) July 22? Hopefully we get it a good month or more before that cause I'm ready!

 

[Beermuny]

I'll be sticking with my original Evo for a while looks like. There's nothing about the 3D that really intrigues me. Seems like I'm not alone when I say that the 3D aspect is a bit of a gimmick and a non selling point with me. The dual core thing is pretty cool, but there are gonna be quite a few new phones with them in the upcoming months. I've played around with sense 3.0 and I'm not really into it. Not to mention the possibility of a locked down bootloader.

I'm glad that I'm not the type that has to be on the bleeding edge of mobile devices. I'm pretty satisfied with the performance of my evo and the dev support. What I really look forward to is the Nexus 3 (if made by HTC) or even possibly the GS2.

 

[EarlyMon]

The Evo had a signed, locked bootloader - like all HTC phones, this promises to have the same.

 

[Beermuny]

The Evo had a signed, locked bootloader - like all HTC phones, this promises to have the same.

Thank you for the clarification, seems there has been confusion by me about being "locked" or "encrypted" like the Motorola phones.

With that being said, the Evo 3D is not even on the list for me as my next device. I bet it will be pretty successful though.

 

[toomuchgame441]

I'm going with the 3D for now as my next upgrade... but I'm still wondering if LG will bring a beast to Sprint. Plus the SGS II looks promising... but u know, its Samsung.

 

[EarlyMon]

Thank you for the clarification, seems there has been confusion by me about being "locked" or "encrypted" like the Motorola phones.

It's a common confusion, no worries.

Even the Nexus comes locked - it's a good thing, it keeps Joe Blow from shooting himself in the foot playing phone genius on day one. But all that takes to unlock is a single, simple command - fastboot oem unlock.

Signed bootloaders are a royal pain in the neck and who knows, the day may come when they can't be dealt with (but that day isn't upon at all yet). Given that they keep changing that around and given that we keep waltzing past that effort, you'd think they'd wise up and just drop the signed part - save us all a lot of grief.

Motorolas come with encrypted locked bootloaders, as you mention. That's just evil. Motorola won hearts and minds at the beginning of the year promising to do something about it. So far, what they've done is ship more of the same.

Best luck on your next choice - there are lots of exciting model coming this year to choose from - and what's wrong with that? Nothing!

 

[JunBringer]

I pre-ordered my Evo 3D today at Radio Shack. I was the first one.

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