I agree with this. The Ally is a fine mid range phone, but it does not have the internal storeage to benefit much from Froyo style A2SD. The lack of memory also affects the overall performance. For me anyway, the higher froyo quadrant scores don't translate into a better hands on "feel" in the performance of the phone.
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I agree with this. The Ally is a fine mid range phone, but it does not have the internal storeage to benefit much from Froyo style A2SD. The lack of memory also affects the overall performance. For me anyway, the higher froyo quadrant scores don't translate into a better hands on "feel" in the performance of the phone.
death2all110
Android Expert
Darktremor's a2sd has been known to kill SD cards. Highly unlikely SD cards will be 1 dollar in two years time. Bullshit. Handed out in church? Bullshit. Very little knowledge of how the economy works. Darktremor's a2sd is also bloated and carries alot of bloat in its scripts. Trying to remove the crap from the scripts causes it to break. Theres alternatives to darktremor's do some digging. But all A2SD:EXT will kill an sd card because of the constant read-write that A2SD:EXT does on the card. Moving dalvik cache to the card can kill it even faster.
Just sayin'.
This thread has gotten way off path and either needs put back on track or need's closed. I don't like seeing threads full of users arguing cluttering the more important info of the forums. Stop arguing. Get along. Please.
P.S.: To the OP, stop bashing dev's its users like you that piss us devs off, and make us want to leave all of you behind. Next time show some respect. Just sayin'.
Just sayin'.
This thread has gotten way off path and either needs put back on track or need's closed. I don't like seeing threads full of users arguing cluttering the more important info of the forums. Stop arguing. Get along. Please.
P.S.: To the OP, stop bashing dev's its users like you that piss us devs off, and make us want to leave all of you behind. Next time show some respect. Just sayin'.
I hope it's not necessary to have the thread closed.
I'd really like to see facts discussed rather than opinions.
Reviewing the thread here are the questions that appear to be unanswered.
1)
The OP asked for volunteers to run a2sd on 2.2.1, has anyone done so? Does it operate the same as on 2.1? Are there any new issues when running on 2.2.1?
2)
Because some things do not run well off of SD, is there a way to selective choose to keep some apps in internal memory when using Darktremor a2sd?
3)
Direct comparison between Froyo Apps2SD+Move2sd Enabler versus Darktremor a2sd is needed to validate this statement.
4)
Direct comparison between Froyo Apps2SD+Move2sd Enabler versus Darktremor a2sd is needed to validate this statement.
5)
Direct comparison of the amount of I/O performed by Froyo Apps2SD+Move2sd Enabler versus Darktremor a2sd is needed to estimate the effect on the life of an SD card.
6)
Need urls for reference.
7)
Needs an explanation of how the class of the SD card addresses the raised concern.
8)
For those that previously endorsed and now recommend against Darktremor a2sd, why have you done so? Direct comparison between Froyo Apps2SD+Move2sd Enabler versus Darktremor a2sd (on 2.1 and 2.2.1) is needed to understand this change in endorsement.
9)
Evidence is needed to validate this statement.
10)
Details of testing needed. Direct speed comparison between Froyo Apps2SD+Move2sd Enabler versus Darktremor a2sd is needed to validate this statement.
11)
Needs a definition of the bloat described and why it is considered bloat. Needs a description of fix attempted and result. Examples of alternatives to Darktremor a2sd needed. Direct comparison of the amount of I/O performed by Froyo Apps2SD+Move2sd Enabler versus Darktremor a2sd is needed to estimate the effect on the life of an SD card. Metrics of the increase in I/O when dalvik is moved to SD is needed to estimate the effect on the life of an SD card.
Closing thoughts: It's good to have an opinion and share it with others. To effectively communicate an opinion, the information that forms the basis of the opinion needs to be presented.
I agree this thread should stay open. I feel bad about upsetting people and I wasn't hating on devs like deathtoall claims. I was just trying to clear the air and combat vapid misinformation.
The script was tested by me because no one tried. Success. Works on 2.2.1 without issues. It operates way better then Velocity's app2sd implementation in the last version.
I am pretty sure if you push the apps from the data to system/data with root explorer you can go off internal memory. Could be wrong. Everything runs well off of SD though so I never tried.
Froyo only puts a portion of the app on the SD because Google wanted this. They wanted this because the Froyo app2sd system was designed for slower SD cards and faster as well. The portion that stays on the internal is the code that would benefit being on the internal in event of the typical class2 slowness that is evident in most SD cards that come with phones.
Froyo App2sd works a program called move2sd which is useful for those older apps that dont support froyo app2sd. It really does the job well for those specific apps. Unfortunately most apps now are updated to froyo and therefore the developer can choose the amount of data on internal and app2sd. In effect, move2sd is useless to help get more space in that situation.
The froyo app2sd was designed for slow sd cards which means that I/O performance would be low on froyo app2sd. This is obvious. So higher I/O would be on the darktremor. I don't know what more to say about this. The life of an SD card is about 5-10 years. Pushing it to the max makes it last about 2 years.
Google is your friend
Link.
Slower SD cards crawl with darktremor, there has been studies with fancy graphs that I have seen in the past that show a class 2 & 4 SD card choking on data whereas class 6 was very good at the task.
Yea, I really want to know why people did not complain about app2sd in Velocity and now really are raising a stink about it. Putting froyo app2sd on a high horse because its a little bit better then the previous app2sd implementations in relationship to I\O performance is not a good enough reason to disregard it forever.
I have come to the conclusion that that Froyo app2sd vs darktremor is a personal preference. Albeit, I found many misconceptions and overlooked details by people in considering the two.
Darktremor was just as fast as froyo app2sd. Tested.
Bloat is items in code that dont need to be there and should be consitered bad. Darktremor may have bloat but that bloat does not seem to a serious issue.
Agree. I like opinions but I thought this thread would be about testing and not pooping on other peoples ideas of a making the LG Ally have more app space.
They will hand out SD cards at church. I guarantee it. Jesus pumps out SD cards from his factory in Shenzhen.
Your an amazing dev. This is an awesome script. Can you and the script just hug and realize that LG Ally needs to at least continue the opportunity of true app2sd that the previous Velocity version had. People don't like the limited app space that Froyo app2sd provides. The app space in darktremor is ridiculous.
death2all110
Android Expert
Keep using that and dalvik2sd but when the card dies and you lose your shit. Don't bitch at us devs. We told you so.
<sigh>
I appears I didn't make myself clear enough in my previous post, so I'll make nice and easy for everyone to understand....
Cut the crap out, now!
Re-read the topic title.... seems 100% appropriate in this forum, wouldn't you say? I don't see very much "testing" going on however. I suggest that those of you who wish to use DarkTremor's script get on with validating how it performs on the device, and those of you who have no interest move on to another topic.
I appears I didn't make myself clear enough in my previous post, so I'll make nice and easy for everyone to understand....
Cut the crap out, now!
Re-read the topic title.... seems 100% appropriate in this forum, wouldn't you say? I don't see very much "testing" going on however. I suggest that those of you who wish to use DarkTremor's script get on with validating how it performs on the device, and those of you who have no interest move on to another topic.
I agree. When one roots a phone they lose warranty and its the owners responsibility to maintain the device. No one should bitch at devs. I gave the warning about sdcard death after 2 years. One should backup with Nandroid and the SD card regularly anyway.
I want to thank everyone for their help, but I havenot really learned a whole lot from reading this. Please can we get back on topic and help me out.
Mattrb when you said "everything runs good from the sd", I would beg to differ(not trying to be hatefull here). I have a app installed called Paralell Kingdom. It uses google maps to create the gaming inviroment and from what I've seen it doesn't run well from the sd card. I even emailed the dev's of the app and they said that could be the cause of the problem of if fc on start up because its designed to run off of the internal phone storage or something like that.
So would you say maybe the newer version of DTSs apps2sd might fix that problem or if you don't know you could download it and try it out. I don't have the recorces right now that I need to up-date to 2.2.1 and have it ago. I'm running Velocity v.04 right now and would like to know anyother options there could be. If this newer version helps I would like to get V1 velocity and try DT's apps2sd to help out with other things.
Deth2All thank you for your insight. Does the app that you mention have the option to select what apps do go to the sd card?
Mattrb when you said "everything runs good from the sd", I would beg to differ(not trying to be hatefull here). I have a app installed called Paralell Kingdom. It uses google maps to create the gaming inviroment and from what I've seen it doesn't run well from the sd card. I even emailed the dev's of the app and they said that could be the cause of the problem of if fc on start up because its designed to run off of the internal phone storage or something like that.
So would you say maybe the newer version of DTSs apps2sd might fix that problem or if you don't know you could download it and try it out. I don't have the recorces right now that I need to up-date to 2.2.1 and have it ago. I'm running Velocity v.04 right now and would like to know anyother options there could be. If this newer version helps I would like to get V1 velocity and try DT's apps2sd to help out with other things.
Deth2All thank you for your insight. Does the app that you mention have the option to select what apps do go to the sd card?
iceman1110
Newbie
I have been running it for a few days now on velocity 1.0. No problems with it whatsoever. Gained an enormous amount of free memory and I am running 100% of my applications and widgets from the sd card with no noticable loss in responsiveness or speed.
netizenmt
Android Enthusiast
I tested Velocity v1.0 with both versions of Apps2sd. I actually ended up with less space using the DT version than I did using FroYo's version. And NO where near 300 MB. I'd like to see a screen shot of that claim.
Performance wise, I didn't notice any difference between the two. It's possible that the apps being used makes a difference in how it's perceived by the enduser.
In the end I went back to my Nandroid and using the FroYo apps2sd as implemented in Velocity V1.0. This was decided because I don't want any future compatibility issues with Velocity updates. Since there was no real benefit in my case, I decided to play it safe.
Performance wise, I didn't notice any difference between the two. It's possible that the apps being used makes a difference in how it's perceived by the enduser.
In the end I went back to my Nandroid and using the FroYo apps2sd as implemented in Velocity V1.0. This was decided because I don't want any future compatibility issues with Velocity updates. Since there was no real benefit in my case, I decided to play it safe.
Any Velocity ZIP that is flashed over your current install needs Darktremor ZIP to be flashed afterwards at all times because the Velocity writes over the a2sd script. That fixes any compatibility issues. If Velocity starts to support darktremor then it will be pre-installed and no subsequent flashing is needed. I doubt he will support darktremor because its so easy to flash by ones self. All future Velocity versions will support this script, unless he turns off init.d which will not happen.
Afteraffekt
Android Enthusiast
Wowowowowo, your telling me of my knowledge? Darktremor's methode places the apk on the ext partition, that then has to be read by the phone, then placed into memory. instead of just being in memory. unless you have a class 10 card you are adding from .04 to .4 seconds to each load time of an app, and yes it adds up.
Also you can have an SD card die within a week of using apps2ext, look around the forums, i remember at least 12 cases to date.
You did NOT just compare the Nexus S to the Ally, and lag problems...The nexus S has a hummingbird processor..compared to our 600mhz? nice comparison, you could put Win 95 on that and not see lag, doesn't mean anything.
Darktremors scrips are full of bloat and useless coding that makes it extremelly unstable, thats why Velocity 0.4 and Punisher 0.2 dropped it for the Villain App2ext method. All it should need to do is take the ext partition and symlink it to /system/sd/
Telling me I dont know what Im talking about... Try talking me down after you stop comparing Nexus S to lag problems...
Funny...The ally only has 256mb TOTAL, and half of that is reserved for /data, /system, and /cache
Learn your specs before pushing hazardous scripts to unknowing users.
Just because I didnt give proof, does not make it made up.
DT apps2ext puts strain on the sdcard for the most part, any other strain is on the i/o bus, cause thats just that much more data transfer than the phone was meant to use in the first place.
Also Velocity uses Data2Cache, since the cache partition is mostly unused, and dalvik is used more than any app, placing that on the SD card causes MUCH more strain and problems than anything, but placing it in /cache is just as fast, and your using a partition that usually goes unused.
For those who have asked, a Class 4 Card will run apps2ext, but i highly recommend a Class 6 or higher if you plan on dalvik, and or swap - Class 10 is even better. Class 4 is a data storage card, others have higher r/w and are made for more constant usage
dcooterfrog
Well-Known Member
I just wanted to add something to this thread.
Touchdown (the exchange client) runs significanlty slower when any portion of the app is placed on my class 10 sd card. dark tremor or froyo. The app has the option to move the database ith froyo but not the 'rest'. Only with froyo was able to keep that application on the phone with the database. I really wanted that option for darktremor ie some apps on others off)
for me touchdown is the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT application on my phone after basic phone features.
so even if darktremor works as designed, and weighing all the options of the sd card life etc. it really may be an app by app issue.
now I am going to unsubscribe from this tread. its gotten a bit petty
Touchdown (the exchange client) runs significanlty slower when any portion of the app is placed on my class 10 sd card. dark tremor or froyo. The app has the option to move the database ith froyo but not the 'rest'. Only with froyo was able to keep that application on the phone with the database. I really wanted that option for darktremor ie some apps on others off)
for me touchdown is the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT application on my phone after basic phone features.
so even if darktremor works as designed, and weighing all the options of the sd card life etc. it really may be an app by app issue.
now I am going to unsubscribe from this tread. its gotten a bit petty
Afteraffekt
Android Enthusiast
Ok Please tell me why When you try to move apps over to SD card the Froyo way with Velocity It says Failed to move?
This is one of the things that tempts me to use this Apps 2 Sd by DT
Most i likely cause it cant be moved, theres a list for darktremors method that specific apps wont be moved, and froyos method is the same way
Ok Please tell me why When you try to move apps over to SD card the Froyo way with Velocity It says Failed to move?
This is one of the things that tempts me to use this Apps 2 Sd by DT
Does it do it still if you try a second time? I have had that problem, first try says failed, and if I tap it a second time right away it will move it no problem.
It is not a velocity issue though, it was happening to me on stock froyo as well.
dautley
Android Expert
Ok Please tell me why When you try to move apps over to SD card the Froyo way with Velocity It says Failed to move?
This is one of the things that tempts me to use this Apps 2 Sd by DT
I had this happen to me because i didn't clean up my SD Card android secure directory before flashing again. usually trying to move it a second time will be successful. Still I just deleted the android secure directory and uninstalled/reinstalled the apps to avoid any problems.
Not having a phone with enough space seems to be a priority then having a less then a millisecond load increase. App space seems to be more of an important feature now with the Google Market increasing app space capacities and other phones now having 500mb-1GB NAND's. The wee Ally whimpers in shame over that conquest. Darktremor fights the desire to throw money at getting a new phone, thereby depleting the Ally community of users. I think the more Ally users, the better.
Those people must have bought off-brand versions that were not designed for performance. I promise that premiere brands will give the juice needed to outlast the crap. Sandisk.
Not S but 1.
Well, I do know that as of Froyo's arrival, the script has been optimized for froyo. Changelog shows this. That means that it would not work as well with eclair. Also the script that Trident and the Punisher guy used was prior to the one that I posted in the OP. Lots of bug fixes.
Huh?
Hazardous? Huh. That's a stretch. The worst hazard is a SD card dies from years of use. Now I will say this again, backup NAND and your SD and that hazard has just dissipated. Even without darktremor being used on your phone one should do these backups anyway.
I agree strain occurs but the SD card will still last about 2 years. Then those SD cards will be cheap. In your cereal as a toy, cheap.
Strangely Class 10 is worse for app2sd. Probably because its new tech. They need to get the kinks out. Get class 6.
Use Move2SD, should help. And use dautley's advice and clear all apps out of SD in Froyo App2sd and then erase the contents of android_secure. I am pretty sure you dont need to reinstall velocity to fix this problem of yours.
Maybe half a dozen apps cant handle darktremor. It could be the devs fault, who knows. But most of those half dozen are obscure.
To help your dcooterfrog, I recommend using the Froyo-Exchange integrated feature. Might help.
Afteraffekt
Android Enthusiast
Yea it still has a 1Ghz Snapdragon, which blows ours away.
I have 37, yes THIRTY SEVEN apps installed, and im still at 110mb Internel free, thats because I have ADW EX, Fancy Widgets and Widgetsoid installed to internel.
I use Move2sd and froyo method... Im not hurting for space what so ever?