Denied another job...it's not easy

[Vihzel]

I'm a student who has to pay for college myself because I wasn't ethnically diverse enough to get a scholarship.

Just a note about this: I have 2 scholarships for attending Indiana University... and they're based SOLELY on academics and I have to keep above a 3.5 GPA to keep one of my scholarships. I never applied to receive any scholarships based on my background because I wanted scholarships that reflected my academic prowess and hard work instead of just because I was asian or homosexual.

It seems to me that it's a bit more of "I didn't try to get any scholarships so I'm going to complain about it." I'm probably wrong, but that is just what I'm feeling from this. I've met SO many people who have scholarships and some have gotten scholarships based on their background, based on they're left-handed, and so forth while others are getting a full ride because they excelled in high school. One of my closest friends have 5 different scholarships, 2 automatic and 3 earned... they're all academic. She's part of the Huttons Honors College, which gives her a scholarship and IU gives her a scholarship. The other 3 were different scholarships that she had to win against other highly qualified students.

 

[grainysand]

Oh man, instead of typing out all that I should've just posted this:

Pictures worth more than a thousand words, etc etc.

 

[_J.J._]

Oh man, instead of typing out all that I should've just posted this:

Pictures worth more than a thousand words, etc etc.

Hitler used propaganda too. But that is a pretty funny cartoon though...

I'm a student who has to pay for college myself because I wasn't ethnically diverse enough to get a scholarship.

I hear ya, I did too. I attended a university in a town that also has a second university in the same town that is historically black... I could have gone there, applied for a minority scholarship, and got the same degree I have today. So you can't really fall back on that one though. There are minority scholarships available for whites.

I do hate the quota scholarships though. "we have 10 scholarships.... 5 go to white, 3 of those have to be women though, and the other 5 for minorities"

so I could be the 7th most qualified person on that list, but if I'm the 3rd white guy, 7 other underqualified candidates get my spot in the job/college/whatever.

slavery didn't affect you personally, or your ability to get an education today. Quit playing the victim card unless you've actually had a whip to your back.

 

[_J.J._]

Oh I know, if a person who's not white gets a job over someone who's white, it's always unfair and affirmative action. It's just not possible, never ever, that the non-white person has more work experience and better portfolio or academic transcript. Bow to the white master, boys, and recognize your inherent inferiority! How very dare you even apply for the same job/college as the master race! The impertinence of it. Back in the old days, those primitives knew their places, isn't that right?

This is the attitude you're displaying, in case you're not quick on the uptake.

nice stretch and distortion of what I said. It's very intellectually dishonest. FWIW - the job I was more qualified to get, but got passed up for, a black guy got it... but that's not my issue. Mine is a political issue and a contract violation. So I agree that it's not always affirmative action. It's definately not in my case. PLUS....the OP hasn't convinced me yet, that this is a case of affirmative action gone bad for him. But don't be so naive to think that it doesn't happen. If a black man/misc minority is more qualified than me... so be it... Personally, I have never felt I lost out due to affirmative action. In my case, I was more qualified than the black man, but quotas were not why they didn't hire me. Plus, this is a supplimental project within my job, given to someone outside the company (a contract violation), not a stand-alone job.

But ANYTIME you hire a less qualified candidate based on race, religion....etc, it's wrong. Whether you hire a Christian over a Muslim, a woman over man, a white over black, or a black over white.


However, hypothetical question.... should a church be allowed to deny employment to gays? Is the local Baptist church required to hire a 45 years of experience Muslim preacher over a recently born again Christian? Is a mosque required to hire a Catholic Priest?

 

[Roze]

What I find is that an education/degree will only get you so far. In today's society, most people have some kind of higher education, so you're only leveled out on the playing field. Education/degree is not as much as a competitive advantage as it was 20 or 30 years ago. Most employers look for someone with both knowledge AND experience. What's the field you're applying for Intervenient? Did you just graduate and have no experience or no RELEVENT experience? This might be the reason. When I was looking for accounting jobs, even the entry level jobs (accounting/AP/AR clerks) required 2-4 years of experiences!!!

Look at your experiences and see what you've done that can be used in the job you're applying for and SELL those knowledge/expertise you've gained. If you're still having difficult, go to NFPO (no for profit organization) and see if they require someone with your knowledge and volunteer your time. Gain the experience needed in your field.

Have you looked at going with job agencies? I find that they are better at getting you jobs, though again, it's usually contract but the experience would benefit you. Also if you get contracted to a great company, you get your foot in the door as the saying goes.

I think you're wrong in thinking that the other 'guy' gets hired just because he's not white. Hiring someone takes ALOT of time and is expensive. As well as qualifications, employers look at your personality to see how well you'd fit with their corporate culture. Unless it's contracted, they want the best candidate they see fit and they want that person to stay with the company. Why hire a ‘minority’ to meet the quota if that person will leave the company after awhile?

Something that has crossed my mind, how many interview calls have you gotten to the companies you’ve applied for? Since if you have a high rate of getting interviews, which mean the employers like what they see on paper. They see that theoretically, you’re qualified. It might be how you’re answering the questions and presenting yourself in the interview that’s why you’re not getting the job.
What I find is that connections is KEY when looking for jobs, if you have the right connection, it’s much easier. Talk to friends and family members to keep on the lookout if they have see any jobs opening up that you’d want. I find that for SMB, a lot of the jobs are from references/recommendations.

I don’t really know your life to give you proper advice, but these are just some suggestions that might be helpful to your endeavorn

-Roze-

 

[_J.J._]

^^^agree with Roze^^^

Intermediant... I do want to hear your side... I def. have not come to any predetermined conclusions about the issue you present like some others have.... but we're not getting the entire story... that does make it seem like you weren't discrimated against, or that you're jumping to wrong conclusions.
I think it does happen, help me understand why you think you were a victim of it.

 

[330D]

I have in the past told a potential employer that I would work for free for a week to show my abilities and aptitude for the job I was applying for. I have never been taken up on the offer, but if they see you are that willing, and eager for a chance at a job, then you may get an opportunity before someone else. If it doesn't work out after the free week, then at least you gained experience. If it has worked out then maybe you could convince them to pay you for your first week

 

[Roze]

J.J. have you gone and TALKED to your manager? Lay it on the table: you hate me and want me gone. You can't fire me because I'm unionized. I'm giving you an option to getting rid of me, sign the transfer paper so that I can get a job in another part of the company. We both win at the end instead of suffering as we are now. Unless he's one of those Alpha manager that's stuck up and cannot see the logic of this.

If there's someone senior than him, go talk to that person. Say that you're under utilized here and that the company is better off if you work in so and so department.

 

[_J.J._]

J.J. have you gone and TALKED to your manager? Lay it on the table: you hate me and want me gone. You can't fire me because I'm unionized. I'm giving you an option to getting rid of me, sign the transfer paper so that I can get a job in another part of the company. We both win at the end instead of suffering as we are now. Unless he's one of those Alpha manager that's stuck up and cannot see the logic of this.

If there's someone senior than him, go talk to that person. Say that you're under utilized here and that the company is better off if you work in so and so department.

Yes I have.... This was discussed at length at the end of the last fiscal year. Now that we're in the new year, it's his option if he 'releases' me at this point. He said he was fine with me transferring in May.... I guess he's changed his mind now.

What I think is going on is boss's talk 'under the table' and my boss wants to make an example of me so he can impress his bosses "I came in and cleaned things up, I didn't pass them on...." that sorta thing. He thrives on conflict.

he is very alpha male oriented. don't you dare question things. But his boss is his buddy. It's a real good ole' boy system and my boss has loftier career goals that will eventually take him away from here.

My other situation that I am filing a grievance for is a little more complicated and doesn't actually involve my boss directly. He's not the one on the line. But, I think my boss talked to the other one, and talked her out of hiring me for that supplemental position (which broke contract). The grievance is on her, not my direct boss.

Very complicated but I'm just stuck in limbo for a few years. Like I said, I'm not worried about my job, but they have rules they have to follow too.

 

[tommy_ed]

Oh please. You don't need to be a "bigot with [a] god complex"--prejudice can be insidious, expressed in little ways like this whole "oh no, the brown/black/yellow people are TAKING MY JOBS, WAHHHH" whinefest. Which is basically what this is. You may be familiar with this "oh no, the immigrants are taking away our jobs" from honest-to-goodness bigots. You may not be one yourself, but if you're expressing the same sentiment in just so many words, examine your own attitude.

Want to know how many non-white people are passed over for employment and promotions because their names "sound black" or sound "un-American"? I'll get you statistics. Want me to link to news articles about Middle-Easterners who are stopped at airports and interrogated because they're suspected of being terrorists? God yes, being white sure is hard. The hardest thing in the world, you martyrs you. No other hardship compares, no one is wronged more. Everyone else is stealing your jobs, your women, and probably out-reproducing you while living on your tax dollars. Take care, or bearing that cross might just break your spine.



I know, right? I'd invite him out the door faster than he can bawl UNFAAAAAIR.

once again you've blown it out of proportion. you skimmed my post. when did i say it was hard for white people? when did i say minorities are taking jobs from white people? I simply said that yes, sometimes someone who is less qualified than another applicant gets a job because of their race. I'm not racist in any way, shape, or form. I'm simply stating a fact. Fill out a civil service exam and then come talk to me. Yes, I would love to see the statistics, although I'm a little curious as to how they would come up with them. They can't exactly ask employers how many people they've denied jobs because of race or "names that sound un-american" can they? You seem like you have some serious issues to work out. And ironically, you sound a bit racist.

I will add that after reading Intervenient's second post, I don't think race is the issue in his case.

 

[melll]

I denied a job today.

Because the people running that clown show are fu***** idiots.

I was supposed to meet up the "manager" today to pick up some uniforms and sign some paper work to get me to work tomorrow.

I go the place of which we are supposed to meet, he says wait 15 minutes.

I wait 15 minutes, and then he tells me to go to some place almost an hour away of a drive.

WTF idiot fool. So I told ok sure. Go to the place where he told me to go which is an hour a FU**** away.

And then he tells me to go back to the original meeting place......................

I blew the hell up on him. And I told him how much of an idiot he is.

This is for a relatively well known security company.

And thats my day today.

 

[Intervenient]

Hey guys, I didn't mean to start a flame war, nor to play the "wwaaaaaahhhh" card. Both my posts were tongue in cheek, mostly because I know that a) Of course I wasn't denied solely because of my race (although I do know those who have) and b) I was limited to scholarships due to my location (central California valley).

 

[Intervenient]

And some clarification: it was a desk attendant job in my college dorms.

And some more clarification: many of you make it seem like I was under qualified, incompetent, and bombed my interview. None of those are true.

During high school, since freshman year, I worked at the front desk. 4-5 hours a day for 4 years. Over summer, I worked a desk attendant job at a hotel. I know how to run a front desk and the procedures that go with them. I know what to do when someone is locked out, what to do in a fight, how to deal with drunk customers, etc etc. I am qualified

I did very decent in high school, getting a 3.84 GPA, only being brought down by Calculus and my various foreign language classes. I held several leadership positions, including president of 4 clubs, 2 of them which I ran without any help. I was accepted into attend a top tier school in America. I'm competent.

My interview went perfect. I was able to use my previous knowledge of working at desks in the last 4 1/2 years. The interviewer said that so far, they had not had anyone else who had worked at a desk before. I was able to recount various instances how my knowledge would apply to this situation and she was very impressed. Not to mention I was able to get letters of recommendation from the superintendent of my high school and the closest member of congress who I did an internship with two years earlier. I nailed every question, and every qualification.

UNTIL she said that they give priority to people who embody diversity and what about me brings diversity to the school. No sweat, I thought, and began telling her of my experiences in the San Joaquin Valley, how I once worked in the fields with my friends, and how I was thinking of pursuing a minor in Chicano Studies. I thought it was a very good response until she asked not about what I studied, but what about me. I asked what she meant, and she asked if I belonged to an ethnic group or a certain religion (as I guess these are the only qualifications of being diverse now a days). I said no. She then gave me a kind of look, asked me if I'm sure there was nothing about me, besides my interests of studies, that made me diverse ethnically or religiously. Again, I said no, and she said I should feel free to call back, but not to get my hopes up.

Again, I don't care too much, it's a one year desk job, I just feel I got the short end of the stick because I don't represent one group of people's definition of diverse.

 

[_J.J._]

that definately sounds like you have something there....

on my end... I got some updates....
the union asked who got the supplemental job, and they told them. Union asked if that person worked there or for the company at all anywhere else since that was a possibility. They said no, he didn't. They asked why they offered it to him instead of within the company..... here's where the smear campaign begins to cover her butt....

now, while I'm not going to delve into exactly what was said.... suffice to say, I did not do it because if I was guilty of it, I wouldn't still be employed here. So, despite smear tactics being used to "justify" their decisions to break the contract, they fawked up and I called them out on it.

So, I'm going down to the union office monday and signing paperwork and proceeding since they just admitted to hiring outside the company. I also have to ask what exactly I am fighting for. a. I could force them to offer me the job.... which, at this point, I can't say I want anymore. b. I could force them to pay me the $$ anyways. The job has already started and at this point, I don't think I could take over right now.

so, again, no belief that I was passed over for the black guy. Me and that guy used to wrestle on the same team back in highschool. Pretty good guy. I like him and hope he does fine. But policy is policy

 

[tommy_ed]

I thought it was a very good response until she asked not about what I studied, but what about me. I asked what she meant, and she asked if I belonged to an ethnic group or a certain religion (as I guess these are the only qualifications of being diverse now a days). I said no. She then gave me a kind of look, asked me if I'm sure there was nothing about me, besides my interests of studies, that made me diverse ethnically or religiously. Again, I said no, and she said I should feel free to call back, but not to get my hopes up..

now THAT's ****ed up ^^^ and should not be happening. Everyone should be treated equally regardless of race or creed

 

[_J.J._]

can you actually ASK that question though?

 

[Intervenient]

can you actually ASK that question though?

I guess so, because they asked it. I guess on a college campus it's perfectly fine

 

[gallandof]

yeah I think they can sadly, Another very disturbing thing. I was reading some of my previous employees handbooks etc.. and noticed that two of them had in the handbook "...the employee can be terminated at any time, without disclosure of reason..." to me that seems completely and utterly f'ed up.

 

[_J.J._]

well, right to work states allow that.... that also means you can just up and quit if you want...

I *believe* in my state, you are under probation for 90 days where employers don't have to tell you a reason they fire you. after that, they have to give a reason, but can still fire you.

I'm fine with that. But I'm perplexed if they really can ask questions about your religion and race.... It's like my situation, they aren't allowed to hire outside the company if there is even 1 candidate within the company who applies. Doesn't mean they won't break the rules and hope they get away with it because 99/100 times, they do. And they'll continue to do it until they are called to the carpet about it.

 

[GeorgeinLA]

Quit bellyaching and take action. You too can be a minority! Just put "native American Students Association" or "Gay and Lesbian Students Association" on your resume under education, and believe me, nobody will question it, but you'll get credit as a minority.

 

[UBRocked]

Quit bellyaching and take action. You too can be a minority! Just put "native American Students Association" or "Gay and Lesbian Students Association" on your resume under education, and believe me, nobody will question it, but you'll get credit as a minority.

Yeah...I wouldn't do that. Boy that would be an embarrassing interview if your interviewer fits into one of those groups and starts to question you on your involvement with those associations!

Only thing that will consistently work to make you stand out is to find ways to save the company money...and to be able to quantify that on a resume.

 

[tommy_ed]

yeah...i wouldn't do that. Boy that would be an embarrassing interview if your interviewer fits into one of those groups and starts to question you on your involvement with those associations!

Only thing that will consistently work to make you stand out is to find ways to save the company money...and to be able to quantify that on a resume.

***rude comment removed***

 

[UBRocked]

***rude comment removed***

Not sure what your post meant...but I'm not amused.

Pretty bizarre concept that you actually would do your job to the best of your ability to gain promotions. As someone who interviews people frequently...I can weed through a BS resume pretty fast and if someone makes it through the resume screening process with a bunch of over inflated BS...I'll make them look pretty stupid in just a couple of minutes.

 

[Crude]

Oh man, instead of typing out all that I should've just posted this:

Pictures worth more than a thousand words, etc etc.

Thousand words eh? Some times it's better to be perceived a fool then open your mouth and remove all doubt.

 

[NYCHitman1]

Personally, I don't think it's fair that the Yankees can afford to buy winning ball teams every year.

Quit your whining. Collective bargaining agreement gives money back to the smaller market teams. It's not the Yankees fault that the owners pocket the money instead of spending it on their star players or acquiring players.