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Root SBC or NO SBC kernel??

To me, they seem risky. I've read several threads about it (on from someone claiming to be an electrical engineer) and it seems like a pros and con list that is just too far skewed to the 'con' side for me.

I'm fine with a 10% battery drop to start the morning off with.

And I guess it comes down to longevity of the battery. If you want a battery that lasts longer on day-to-day use or on month-to-month use.

*Granted, I am no electrical engineer and could have completely misunderstood all of the threads that I read ;)
 
9to5cynic said:
To me, they seem risky. I've read several threads about it (on from someone claiming to be an electrical engineer) and it seems like a pros and con list that is just too far skewed to the 'con' side for me.

I'm fine with a 10% battery drop to start the morning off with.

And I guess it comes down to longevity of the battery. If you want a battery that lasts longer on day-to-day use or on month-to-month use.

*Granted, I am no electrical engineer and could have completely misunderstood all of the threads that I read ;)
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I dunno I use them all the time. Its all I use. Works fine for me. I'm not an ee just an me but I asked a ee and a computer eng and they didn't see an issue but you do it at your own risk. If yo shit blows up dont blame me, just what I've heard and experienced.
 
So besides your device blowing up, or melting down, which would obviously be a con to having an SBC kernel.
Then what are the upsides to having an SBC kernel? ... Better battery life?? anything else?
 
well sbc stands for Superior battery charge... the only difference I know off is it pushs your battery to a true 100% and you will not get the 5% -10% drop of after you unplug... which is small to me and not worth the risk of blowing up your battery..( not that I have any account of this happening but why take the risk for 5-10 % of your battrey) .. I can take my charge cord any where.....
 
SBC but I used nosbc for a long time. It doesn't overheat my phone and if it kills my battery I'll just get a new one.
 
I have been a BIG fan of the SBC kernels, but here is what I have come to discover. The SBC kernel is only really good after initial charge when the phone is sitting still. I've sat at 100% for 3hrs. before...BUT once you start heavily using the phone...it drops at a high rate of speed. Seems much quicker than regular kernels, so I guess you need to decide which end of the batt cycle you'd prefer.
 
RunVert said:
I have heard mixed reviews on using SBC kernels.
What are your thoughts?
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I tried it and it did work at first. Now my extended battery has gone to crap and is now worse than my OEM battery that came with my evo.

In my opinion I won't use it anymore. I now use nosbc kernal and am happy with my oem battery life. It's not great but i can get through a whole work day pretty easily.

I would recommend you get another oem battery from ebay and an external battery charger. Have one on in your phone and the other in the external battery charger. Then just switch them out when one dies. it's by far the easiest and most effective way to avoid that quick drop in charge. By chargin in an external charger you no longer have the issue of the phone not fully charging the phone.
 
Both Tiamat and SZ have switched to SBC by default, the noSbc build isn't even updated and is a few days behind. So the trend is clear, even a lot of rom's come with sbc kernels by default.
 
wake69 said:
still wanna see a sploded phone
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+1
I love splosions. Especially when really cool doods turn and walk away from em.
Currently I have my son telling everyone he meets we're making a uranium P38 space modulator to blow stuff up. I may have child youth services up my thunder tunnel soon....

I've never used a sbc kernel. Missionary works fine for me. :D
 
SBC is all I use now. My phone's never over-heated and the gain in battery life is well worth the "what if's" to me.
 
Putty said:
I have been a BIG fan of the SBC kernels, but here is what I have come to discover. The SBC kernel is only really good after initial charge when the phone is sitting still. I've sat at 100% for 3hrs. before...BUT once you start heavily using the phone...it drops at a high rate of speed. Seems much quicker than regular kernels, so I guess you need to decide which end of the batt cycle you'd prefer.
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Yep, that's exactly what I observed. It stays as 100% longer, but drops at a much faster rate than before using SBC. As far as how "dangerous" they are, it seems unlikely that it will cause your phone to explode, but we probably won't know for several more months whether or not it decreases the life of the battery. I guess we'll see.
 
Hmm... I hope they don't completely get rid of the NoSBC versions. Extra Crispy mentioned that the noSBC versions are behind, but what harm can having the choice really have? I'll still give it a while before using the sbc versions, unless I inadvertently install one by mistake (now that roms are including them by default it could happen) :|
 
Again I will reiterate ....100 % SBC since they came out and :
No sploded phone
No overheating
using the same two batteries the entire time
Heavy phone user
no degeneration of either battery
multiple roms and 2 go to SBC kernels and lifetime is consistant

One of the few times I will sound like a jerk
If you aren't getting the results I mentioned above you bought a crap battery OR you are doing something wrong

Now smile :)

I miss everyone and have been super busy. I will be back soon.
 
Mr. Ed said:
Again I will reiterate ....100 % SBC since they came out and :
No sploded phone
No overheating
using the same two batteries the entire time
Heavy phone user
no degeneration of either battery
multiple roms and 2 go to SBC kernels and lifetime is consistant

One of the few times I will sound like a jerk
If you aren't getting the results I mentioned above you bought a crap battery OR you are doing something wrong

Now smile :)

I miss everyone and have been super busy. I will be back soon.
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I have been trying out the sbc kernels the last few weeks and I haven't seen any issues so far. :D
 
There is no such thing as 10% battery loss after unplugging it. It's just that your battery indicator is misreading the charge. SBC charges your battery above what your indicator can read. So what you see is that it stays at 100% even after significant usage. Once the charge falls to within the thresholds of the indicator, you will see a drop.

SBC also doesn't charge your battery to some "true 100%." You can always crank out more charge by upping the voltage, but at huge detriment on battery longevity. SBC just charges your battery to some point above what your indicator can measure. That's it.

I have a background in Chemical Engineering, which for the current topic I find to be more relevant than electrical engineering. SBC is fine if the voltage is delivered in bursts rather than continuously. The goal here is to avoid plating, which is a chemical pathway where the lithium ions become deposited on the anode as the solid lithium metal. You need Li in ionic form to be able to transfer electricity. A sustained high voltage environment will accelerate plating. This is why modern chargers pull back and shut off voltage as the battery approaches a target charge.

The other contributor to plating is temperature. When the temp of your battery rises, either from charging or use, the chemical reaction starts to favor plating. Charging with higher voltage to get more charge would generate more heat and therefore you lose more Lithium ions in the process. This is also why charging via USB is healthier than a wall A/C charger. The wall charger can do the job MUCH faster, but it also causes the battery temp to spike much higher.

The end result of plating is that you have fewer and fewer cathode ions over time, and your battery capacity reduces. SBC tries to avoid plating by overcharging very slowly in short bursts. That's why it works best during overnight charging where it has the time to slowly build up the extra charge without keeping average voltage high and avoiding peak temperatures.

Despite the precautions, there is a measurable degradation occurring with SBC, but for many, that amount is an acceptable tradeoff for the improved charge. After all, our phone batteries only need to last through our 2-year contract. If a battery under noSBC can last, say 3 years, but a battery under SBC lasts 2 years, we're golden.

That said, I'm not convinced every kernel's implementation of SBC is the same, so results may vary. Likewise, not all batteries are created equal, and some are more susceptible to plating than others. So with all these variables, it's natural for people to observe different results.


-edit-
Forgot to address the exploding battery. The odds of this happening are low. It can happen under a process called thermal runaway. This can be started via several mechanisms including overcharging, but the prerequisite temp of the battery core needs to be around 80C. It's unlikely that any of us have ever gotten battery temps that high. In a poorly implemented overcharge, such as keeping voltage high continuously or using an excessively high voltage, it's very possible to make the battery overheat to 80C. I don't think any current SBC implementation would cause this. But the disclaimer is out there. It COULD happen as a worst case scenario.

If you happen to be holding the phone, or if it's in your pocket, you'll get plenty of warning before the actual explosion, since your phone will become too hot to touch. Temps will reach above boiling (100C) before the explosion occurs. But if your battery ever reaches 80C, consider it a dead battery. It won't ever charge properly again.
 
I am running Tiamat as well. It is great and I have zero issues. SZ usually gives me a couple weird issues but Tiamat is flawless.
 
Thanks for the info going to flash the newest tiamat (I think 3.3.7) SBC tonight. Also Savagezen made my phone start rebooting then bootloop.
 
Xtremedays said:
I have tried a few of the SZ kernels with no luck. Tiamat seems to work well with my phone.
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better than netarchy kernals?

is there a list for kernals other than the "roms and kernals" page? If i remember correctly the kernals in there are not all that are available. i was looking for a kings unleashed kernal for my R3 rom I just flashed, although netarchy is doing ok on it at the moment.
 
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