What the heck is the deal with iphone users Vs Android users

[tazziedevil]

Compatibility on a mac? You've got to be kidding me. Seriosuly. Apple products only play nice with apple products. If you bought nothing but microsoft gear, it would be just as "seamless". Point is, we have the option to choose what fits us, with apple, you don't. Argument invalid.

And you can't tell me the droid lineup, evo4g, incredible, desire, all these current handsets don't work very easy out of the box. Anyone with an IQ above their shoe size can pick one up and use it just fine. My mother had a g1, and she had no problems with it at all, and used quite a few of the features on it. My brother is tech-challeneged, he grabbed the cliqxt and loves it. Granted I had to show him how to get gamboid roms, but that's unrelated to the phone itself. He emails, texts, surfs the web, and finds tons of apps on market very easily. Keep in mind my brother is someone who didn't know you had a choice of desktop browsers, either, so that's saying a lot. So, argument, invalid.

Exactly!!

For me at least, it's not Apple products per se. I have used them, and I don't care them. Are they intuitive? Sure, but so is EVERY phone made these days.

With an iPhone:
Want to use the internet: press the "browser" widget.
Update your facebook? press the "facebook" widget.
update your twitter? press the "twitter" widget.
make a call? press the "phone" button.
Etc, etc.

With android, blackberry, palm pre (basically any other smart phone):
Want to use the internet: press the "internet" widget.
Update your facebook? press the "facebook" widget.
update your twitter? press the "twitter" widget.
make a call? press the "phone" button.
Etc, etc.

Apple perpetuates this blatantly false misconception that every other phone/computer is hopelessly complicated and Apple is sooo easy. For the "average" user- who just wanted to surf the net, use a word processor/spreadsheet/office programs, and play a few games Windows is JUST as easy to use right out of the box.

And it's easy to not need very many drivers when you have far, far fewer peripherals and software that need drivers.

 

[Snow_Fox]

Well I think this says it all.

 

[vandyblackandgold]

a different guy i know got a tattoo of both the Apple logo on his right forearm, and actually got a tattoo of the iPhone home screen on his L shoulder.

How many windows users would do that?

It's a phone, people.

Sheesh.

That's hilarious. He is aware that tattoos are permanent, right? Imagine what happens when he grows up and realizes you shouldn't define yourself with a brand.

lol, well, that is beyond stupid.

how is this any different from having my favorite sports team tattoo'd on my arm?

 

[sontaikle]

As bad as apple fans?

Apple fans created half the problems you see here.

I'm sorry but, apple pretty much tries to make its customers feel like they are superior when they buy apple products.. there is no denying this..

And sadly.. more apple customers than I would like (not all) buy into just that..

*edit*

Feel free to let me know next time your in a local store and an android user or pc user starts complaining that their windows logo or android logo is going to be covered up, and acting like the employee is personally responsible for not stocking the cover that shows the logo..

Whoops my bad :/ I didn't know I ran the store and I got to select what merchandise we get.. how dare I not know you wanted everyone to be able to see your apple logo :/...

You completely missed my point. Just because Apple users, Android users and Windows users don't defend their platforms the same way doesn't mean anything.

Many on here are bashing Apple into oblivion while valiantly defending Android. This is exactly what the apple users do that you guys complain about. Just because they do it differently doesn't mean anything.

It's the same thing if you stumble across a thread with hardcore PS3 fans and hardcore Xbox 360 fans arguing. Both will bash the other's platform while defending their own and ignoring and glossing over the faults of their chosen platform. Meanwhile those of us who are sane will enjoy the benefits of having both consoles and ignore the morons.

 

[Vihzel]

Not really interested in going through this point by point, but this does merit a response, because it's demonstrably false. One of the really nice things about macs, actually, is that you can plug in just about anything and it will figure out how to operate it. No hunting the net for drivers or any of that BS, just plug it in and let it go. The same cannot be said of PCs.

Just saying that I've never had any problem with my PC finding the correct driver and automatically installing it. Never.

 

[IOWA]

I defend what is worth defending.

Tapatalk. Samsung Moment. Yep.

 

[hood420]

The 'Apple hate' comes from several directions:
... Second are the 'righteous indignation. people. They believe that innovation and good products deserve to succeed and that lack of innovation and bad products deserve to fail. They get irate when they see what they regard as a bad product succeeding, and many of them regard Apple products as succeeding far more than they should naturally do. They tend to therefore form a very negative view of Apple products...

That point is very true with me.

But I also genuinely don't like the iPhone / iPods interface and functionality. I don't like iTunes (or any syncing software), I don't like lack of customizations, etc. The only things I do like about them are the animations used throughout the OS, and the number and quality of apps, which Android is quickly gaining ground on. My biggest point is an ideological one, I disagree with Apple's way of doing business and I refuse to support them or their products.

This is in contrast to Google, who makes many great products, of which virtually all of them are free to consumers, and they respond to customers needs/wants. To me, that is deserving of some brand loyalty.

 

[toasty]

Just saying that I've never had any problem with my PC finding the correct driver and automatically installing it. Never.

Even during the XP --> Vista "upgrade?" That was a nightmare from a driver standpoint, at least for me. Was able to find them eventually, but there was nothing "automatic" about it.

 

[mrspeedmaster]

Mac desktops are truly a complete rip-off. They overcharge their desktops like crazy. You can build a far more powerful desktop of your own for MUCH MUCH less.

Not everyone buys their computers.... My wife, my kids all run Linux. I recycle old workstations (throw-away from work) and we run Linux in my household. My HTPC, Carpc is all linux. When I say throw-away, they are good 6-month old Dell workstations with $5K video cards, 8GB ram, 4 cores.

Whenever we get new equipment orders at work, I *always* specify a loaded MacBook Pro for myself. Why? Because it is a Unix workstation that works. I manage multimillion dollar Unix/Solaris servers. I get paid to fiddle & compile kernels, tweak on servers, configure switches/firewalls, & develop unix apps for high end rendering.

When I get home, I want something that just works. Unibody macbooks are pure quality machinery. Same for their high end 8 core Mac workstations. Cost no object. I have a family now and I don't have time to go hunt power-supplies, research cpu/motherboards when I'll be running OSX. High-end imaging/3d/video apps aren't really comparable on other platforms.

 

[IOWA]

Mac desktops are truly a complete rip-off. They overcharge their desktops like crazy. You can build a far more powerful desktop of your own for MUCH MUCH less.

Not everyone buys their computers.... My wife, my kids all run Linux. I recycle old workstations (throw-away from work) and we run Linux in my household. My HTPC, Carpc is all linux. When I say throw-away, they are good 6-month old Dell workstations with $5K video cards, 8GB ram, 4 cores.

Whenever we get new equipment orders at work, I *always* specify a loaded MacBook Pro for myself. Why? Because it is a Unix workstation that works. I manage multimillion dollar Unix/Solaris servers. I get paid to fiddle & compile kernels, tweak on servers, configure switches/firewalls, & develop unix apps for high end rendering.

When I get home, I want something that just works. Unibody macbooks are pure quality machinery. Same for their high end 8 core Mac workstations. Cost no object. I have a family now and I don't have time to go hunt power-supplies, research cpu/motherboards when I'll be running OSX. High-end imaging/3d/video apps aren't really comparable on other platforms.

If your really saying that mac osx can render graphics better than pc, well, I don't want you near any of my machines.

Not to mention companies generally don't throw out high end machines like that for an incremenatal upgrade. Then having the hassle of reconfiguring everything on the new machine, when its easier just to replace the parts.

Mac hardware is never near top of the line hardware, and if your just throwing unix/linux on it anyway, I find this entire post rather incredible. "Just sayin'"

Tapatalk. Samsung Moment. Yep.


EDIT: the more I think about it, the more I don't believe that your company throws out 5k machines on a whim every 2 quarters. When we buy more printers or faster/more heads on an embroidery machine, we don't throw out the old equipement. The reason why we are in the mutlimillion revenue figure is because of things like saving money where we can, and if walmart, one of the largest(if not the largest) corporations in. The world is trying to cut overhead, and costs, to churn that extra few bucks at the end of the quarter, its hard to believe any company worth its salt wouldn't do the same, regardless of liquid assets they may or may not have.

 

[mrspeedmaster]

If your really saying that mac osx can render graphics better than pc, well, I don't want you near any of my machines.
.

I never said that. I am certain, you can build a PC workstation cheaper upfront. But we factor in maintenance, downtime, reliability in our TCOs. So yes, macs are more expensive upfront in our type of business. BUT, they tend to be cheaper in the long run. If you go into any real/large advertising or high end 3d shop, chances are they are running macs.

We've been experimenting with PCs (Windows 7) and all Linux but our artists have problems and it hinders their creativity.

I work in an industry tailored advertising and 3d creatives. We use PCs (running Linux) for all the grunt work (render slaves). We use Macs for creative work. All the creative work, IT administration are done on macs. Also, in 15 years, I've never had any downtime on any of our client machines due to viruses/trojans. We can clone a mac and get a workstation (fully licensed) in 15 minutes with stuff like firewire boot off an ipod (carbon cloning). Again, things that just works. All of my clients/vendors are all mac based. All tv commercial files are done on macs. All print work we do and all of our clients/vendors are on macs.

PCs (linux) are used for servers and renders. We use to be a 100% Silicon Graphics house. Then we moved to Solaris. Now, we run OSX/Linux.

 

[mrspeedmaster]

EDIT: the more I think about it, the more I don't believe that your company throws out 5k machines on a whim every 2 quarters. When we buy more printers or faster/more heads on an embroidery machine, we don't throw out the old equipement. .

Read my other post. I work in high-end imaging and image rendering. We go thru machines for rendering files. They take up physical spaces. My company is growing. A Tower workstation requires physical space and we are moving to all blade configurations. As we get funding, we retire our older PCS into blade racks. When we get new blades, we retire older workstations. Eventually,everything will be in rack mounts and that will slow down our upgrades. I'm looking forward to see what those ex-Apple PA engineers are doing w/ their start-up. Rumor is that they are building mullti-cores servers using ARM. Rumor has it that will pack 200 snapdragon cores into a 1U rack.

 

[IOWA]

If your really saying that mac osx can render graphics better than pc, well, I don't want you near any of my machines.
.

I never said that. I am certain, you can build a PC workstation cheaper upfront. But we factor in maintenance, downtime, reliability in our TCOs. So yes, macs are more expensive upfront in our type of business. BUT, they tend to be cheaper in the long run. If you go into any real/large advertising or high end 3d shop, chances are they are running macs.

We've been experimenting with PCs (Windows 7) and all Linux but our artists have problems and it hinders their creativity.

I work in an industry tailored advertising and 3d creatives. We use PCs (running Linux) for all the grunt work (render slaves). We use Macs for creative work. All the creative work, IT administration are done on macs. Also, in 15 years, I've never had any downtime on any of our client machines due to viruses/trojans. We can clone a mac and get a workstation (fully licensed) in 15 minutes with stuff like firewire boot off an ipod (carbon cloning). Again, things that just works. All of my clients/vendors are all mac based. All tv commercial files are done on macs. All print work we do and all of our clients/vendors are on macs.

PCs (linux) are used for servers and renders. We use to be a 100% Silicon Graphics house. Then we moved to Solaris. Now, we run OSX/Linux.

Lol @propoganda. Hardware, is hardware. I can buy the same hardware outfit used in any mac, and throw unix on it. So what's the point of buying a mac if your replacing the os? That argument is ludacris at best.

Want to know why "designers" and "artists" use macs? Back in the early 90s, yeah, mac platform certainly did have an edge for artists. The programs just weren't available for pc. But as businesses are in it for money, you can have those same programs(most of them) on a pc, and they will run better, too, due to being able to use better hardware. This is also part of the reason why apple is at war with adobe. Adobe at first, catered to mac only. It was their bread and butter. Its what got mac popular with "artists" and media developers in the first place. Then adobe starting pushing out to pc. But it was mac first, pc second. And the mac versions still had a slight edge. Now, adobe caters to pc market more than mac. Why? There is more money to be made selling on pc. More potential customers. And since flash can use hardware acceration on a pc, and not on a mac,(since almighty jobs says its bad!), users began asking why it ran so poorly on mac. Why was it contantly crashing? What the hell is going on??? Well, adobe answered those concerns. And subtly pointed the finger at apple, it was their fault, not ours. And its true. Well, mr jobs didn't like that very much, hence the current "war". Also, To think mac hardware is somehow better, is absurd. Its all outsourced, and made in the same place. It all comes from china/japan/taiwan/asian country.

And still, why would you buy an entirely new machine, when a part swap can be had in minutes as well, and be better for the bottom line?


Tapatalk. Samsung Moment. Yep.

 

[mrspeedmaster]

Lol @propoganda. Hardware, is hardware. I can buy the same hardware outfit used in any mac, and throw unix on it. So what's the point of buying a mac if your replacing the os? That argument is ludacris at best.
And still, why would you buy an entirely new machine, when a part swap can be had in minutes as well, and be better for the bottom line?

I don't need to explain to you how our industry works. I never said we replacing the OS on the macs. I said we use macs for creative and pcs for all the grunt work. How much clearer can I explain it.

As for swapping parts, we don't do that. Ever heard of accountability? When a NIC card fails and doesn't work with a switch, one vendor blames the other vendors. Corporations work different than individuals. I just paid $1200 each for 2TB hard drives that will go into IBM RAIDs. I can probably get those drives for $200 at Frys or NewEgg online. Why did I over-pay? Well, I have a service contract w/ IBM. If something goes wrong at 3AM on a Saturday night, they deal with it. Same with hardware. I have service contracts on our equipment. In fact, certain monitors go with certain workstations for on service contracts. Swapping out monitors invalidates them. Yes, a simple swap of a 30" Cinema to another machine invalidates the service contract. Simple. Can I make that point any clearer?

Furthermore, you don't even know how the equipment are purchased. Ever heard of accelerated leasing. Because of our business, the banks amortize the lease of the equipment very, very fast. In a year, the equipment is written off. Again, in this type of industry, you can justify those depreciation a part of operating cost.

We don't work out a lab and build pcs from individual components.

Don't give me the lecture/history of why macs are used by creatives. I live it everyday of my life. Your computing views don't apply when there are other tangibles like the artists themselves. They pick their equipment. We foster their creativity. Period. Artists/Art Directors are like Prima Donnas. You give them what they want. If you don't, they go somewhere else. Good artists and Directors are invaluable. Who cares if they worship the turtleneck of Steve Jobs. We hire them to do their work and that is to be creative.

Do you even know what TCO is? Total Cost of Operations. 90% of Advertising Agencies small and medium are run by a small handfull of IT. To them, it is easier to manage a mac network. TCO cost includes the cost of the sysadmin and IT staff and their time. If it is quicker to buy a new machine/replace it , it is cheaper than hiring another full-time employee or paying OT. Furthermore, there are specialize software that only works on certain platforms.

I'm not going to go on a diatribe about this. You simply don't get it. I can further elaborate and justify why 90% of the ad agencies, media , tv uses macs and you still won't get it. Get over it. Certain industries uses certain tools.

Your rebuttal centers on the physical cost of the hardware. You make it sound like I can run my business by going to Frys, buy a bunch of components and hamstring them together. If I put a custom built rig in my XSAN and it goes down, the RAID vendor will never, never, never, let me repeat, never support it. If I install Maya on a custom workstation for an artist and have a problem with the render queue, my Autodesk reseller, again, will give the the answer they don't support that configuration. I've been there, done that.

As far as the Apple-Adobe war. You are drinking kool-aid from the media. Tell that to my Adobe rep who we buy full 100 seat licenses of their software. They all laugh. In the real world, it is all media banter. They're always happy when we add new seat licenses.

 

[Snow_Fox]

@ master..

If what your saying is true.. the amount of cash wasted is horrific.. I can't imagen paying 1200$ for a 200$ hard drive at best.. Even for the cost of having someone fixing it.. I would imagen there would be some guy on call in the company that could be called at 2 a. m. if there was really that much sensative data.

With that said.. at least you admit the mac users can be picky and illogical.. I don't ask that everyone quit buying apple products.. I just don't want to argue what platform is superior in terms of power.. If your willing to pay more for a product go ahead however, don't think it is a superior product just because you paid more for it.. And do not try to act superior to me for it. I plan on building my own pc in the near future, I know exactly what is going into it and how powerful its going to be.. So for the love of god don't try to convince me to get a mac just because its "virus free" (which I've had people do). If i want a nexus one for 529$ and 10$ a month internet instead of 30$ its going to come out about the same as iphone.. So don't critisize my judgment for getting what I prefer. Am I as bad as the apple fanboys I critisize? I don't know, However, I do know I didn't just wake up in the morning and decided to hate apple..

As far as "support" goes..

I do find it peculiar you don't have a tech desk full of eggheads who know what they are doing.. Sounds like it could save you some money :/.. Sure it could be 40k or more a year but, the kinda money that is being throw around there is impressive to say the least.. so I doubt 40k on some guy who knows what he is doing is gunna go to waste :/...

And for what its worth we can talk about "apple hating" all day long.. however, most of the people here prefer android for a reason...

And I'm sorry.. but, apple DOES put itself out there to be attacked, and you don't have to hate apple to know that apple fanboys run rampant on the web.. Sure there are android fans out there just as bad now.. however, I don't go out and try to stir up apple fans.

Google isn't a saint, start a topic and we can condemn google to.

Hell I'll start.. I hate the "advertisements" that are "specialized" for me. It ticks me off that google shows me adds for products I either A. already have or B. already don't want.

 

[tazziedevil]

This thread is funny. It's really like a microcosm of the entire "World Vs. Apple" debate.

Non-Apple user: "I just don't understand why you would pay MORE for a system (hardware+software) that does less, has less peripherals available, and tho only features you can use are the ones that the president ALLOWS you to use."

Apple user: "Because it's the way we've always done it and we aren't interested in changing, no matter the flexibility of another system."

 

[tazziedevil]

Just saying that I've never had any problem with my PC finding the correct driver and automatically installing it. Never.

Even during the XP --> Vista "upgrade?" That was a nightmare from a driver standpoint, at least for me. Was able to find them eventually, but there was nothing "automatic" about it.

I think i only had to go online to find two drivers, one for a wacom tablet and one for a bluetooth mouse. Found them in about 15 minutes, counting the time it took to download them.

And once again, when you only have a few dozen things that need drivers (as opposed to a few thousand) it's fairly quick to upgrade them all.

 

[Snow_Fox]

This thread is funny. It's really like a microcosm of the entire "World Vs. Apple" debate.

Non-Apple user: "I just don't understand why you would pay MORE for a system (hardware+software) that does less, has less peripherals available, and tho only features you can use are the ones that the president ALLOWS you to use."

Apple user: "Because it's the way we've always done it and we aren't interested in changing, no matter the flexibility of another system."

In all fairness apple users have two REALLY good reasons to buy apple products... Especially iphones and ipod touches.. Apple products are fashionable.. Even if I don't think so.. and fashion sells.. BIG. think abercrombie and finch on steroids.

Now it does garner hatred for that alone and it is fair to dislike it on those reasons.. I Love tech, I don't want tech and fashion to go to closely together. I don't mind Tech having style.. I don't want to dwell in the beige box forever.. However, lets face it fashion sells big.

If people want an enclosed ecosystem they feel is nearly flawless.. Let them pay the premium fashion price. It is peoples right to have fashionable "trouble free" equipment.

Note: I don't care for apple's style.. but, I'm the minority..

 

[IOWA]

I don't need to explain to you how our industry works. I never said we replacing the OS on the macs. I said we use macs for creative and pcs for all the grunt work. How much clearer can I explain it.

As for swapping parts, we don't do that. Ever heard of accountability? When a NIC card fails and doesn't work with a switch, one vendor blames the other vendors. Corporations work different than individuals. I just paid $1200 each for 2TB hard drives that will go into IBM RAIDs. I can probably get those drives for $200 at Frys or NewEgg online. Why did I over-pay? Well, I have a service contract w/ IBM. If something goes wrong at 3AM on a Saturday night, they deal with it. Same with hardware. I have service contracts on our equipment. In fact, certain monitors go with certain workstations for on service contracts. Swapping out monitors invalidates them. Yes, a simple swap of a 30" Cinema to another machine invalidates the service contract. Simple. Can I make that point any clearer?

Furthermore, you don't even know how the equipment are purchased. Ever heard of accelerated leasing. Because of our business, the banks amortize the lease of the equipment very, very fast. In a year, the equipment is written off. Again, in this type of industry, you can justify those depreciation a part of operating cost.

We don't work out a lab and build pcs from individual components.

Don't give me the lecture/history of why macs are used by creatives. I live it everyday of my life. Your computing views don't apply when there are other tangibles like the artists themselves. They pick their equipment. We foster their creativity. Period. Artists/Art Directors are like Prima Donnas. You give them what they want. If you don't, they go somewhere else. Good artists and Directors are invaluable. Who cares if they worship the turtleneck of Steve Jobs. We hire them to do their work and that is to be creative.

Do you even know what TCO is? Total Cost of Operations. 90% of Advertising Agencies small and medium are run by a small handfull of IT. To them, it is easier to manage a mac network. TCO cost includes the cost of the sysadmin and IT staff and their time. If it is quicker to buy a new machine/replace it , it is cheaper than hiring another full-time employee or paying OT. Furthermore, there are specialize software that only works on certain platforms.

I'm not going to go on a diatribe about this. You simply don't get it. I can further elaborate and justify why 90% of the ad agencies, media , tv uses macs and you still won't get it. Get over it. Certain industries uses certain tools.

Your rebuttal centers on the physical cost of the hardware. You make it sound like I can run my business by going to Frys, buy a bunch of components and hamstring them together. If I put a custom built rig in my XSAN and it goes down, the RAID vendor will never, never, never, let me repeat, never support it. If I install Maya on a custom workstation for an artist and have a problem with the render queue, my Autodesk reseller, again, will give the the answer they don't support that configuration. I've been there, done that.

As far as the Apple-Adobe war. You are drinking kool-aid from the media. Tell that to my Adobe rep who we buy full 100 seat licenses of their software. They all laugh. In the real world, it is all media banter. They're always happy when we add new seat licenses.

Seriously, for $1200, you can buy your 2TB hard drives, and backup hard drives, Have the hard drives mirrored, and if YOU were even slightly competent with computer machinery(which by the looks of it you are) it wouldn't take any longer than 5 minutes to swap out a failed hard drive, with one of the backups in store. (Add another 5 min if your cloning said HD) So that would amount to about half the cost...

So a $600 savings. Are the IT guys really getting paid $600 every HALF hour just to buy equipment and set it up? If they are, SIGN ME UP!

And your "Justification" of using the Mac platform, is basically sounding like a bunch of whiny bitches who don't get their way and they throw a baby tantrum. But such is life, and is hardly a great reason to personally choose mac over PC.

Why call IBM, waste hours, (most maintenance contracts are that fast, if not faster) when you can have it fixed, ready to go, in a matter of minutes. (other than the specialized monitors)

So I'd really (honestly) like to hear your other "justifications" of using the Mac platform, and the company squandering money like it's growing on trees.

And wouldn't it suck if you got targeted by a hacker who didn't like you? I mean, Macs DO get cracked first in EVERY hacking competition. And the day Someone writes a big nasty virus for Mac, (oh it's coming. The security through obscurity thing is getting flushed away faster every day). It would SUCK to be on a MAC. Why? Macs have very little or no defense to malware.

Sounds like my way would save you time, money, and worry. Also, it would be MORE secure. So, care to further explain? (other that "artists" being stupid)

Also, what does a monitor (even if it's specialized) have to do with the box your running it on? Fill me in, curious on that one.

EDIT: Please fill us in on all the details if you would. How are we supposed to know you have special monitors and what-have-you. Your situation is unique to most of the world, and I don't know what's going on behind the scenes, and for you to be acerbic about us not knowing your industry inside and out, that is a level of arrogance I haven't reached.

 

[mrspeedmaster]

I can't imagen paying 1200$ for a 200$ hard drive at best.. Even for the cost of having someone fixing it..

I, too, was pretty shocked but those are industry standard prices. Dell charges similar. The drives are flashed w/ custom firmware. Service contract includes 24 hour replacement, on-site,etc.. You can't really hire someone with all the specialties we need. If you found someone, I guarantee you it would be close to 4X your 40K salary figure. Yeah, when you can't google your answers, I've seen a few sysadmins turn white real quick. Even in this recession, good people are hard to find.

As far as "support" goes..
so I doubt 40k on some guy who knows what he is doing is gunna go to waste

40K barely pays the salary of the front desk reception.

I don't understand the hate and hoopla myself. These are just tools people use. Some people pay a premium because they enjoy the experience. I prefer Irix and Solaris but those are pretty much dead weight now. My wife prefers Ubuntu. Computers are like cars. They get you from point A to Point B. Some people prefer Audis, some prefer Fords.

 

[IOWA]

I, too, was pretty shocked but those are industry standard prices. Dell charges similar. The drives are flashed w/ custom firmware. Service contract includes 24 hour replacement, on-site,etc.. You can't really hire someone with all the specialties we need. If you found someone, I guarantee you it would be close to 4X your 40K salary figure. Yeah, when you can't google your answers, I've seen a few sysadmins turn white real quick. Even in this recession, good people are hard to find.



40K barely pays the salary of the front desk reception.

I don't understand the hate and hoopla myself. These are just tools people use. Some people pay a premium because they enjoy the experience. I prefer Irix and Solaris but those are pretty much dead weight now. My wife prefers Ubuntu. Computers are like cars. They get you from point A to Point B. Some people prefer Audis, some prefer Fords.

Ok, now that's something I understand. But wouldn't a cloned drive work, I mean, it should clone the custom firmware as well, no?

and yeah, a decent IT guy goes for 75k easy

EDIT: While looking up some info, just noticed Sun Microsystems (The inventor of JAVA!) got bought out by oracle. Hmph how about that.

EDIT2: Aww you should have at least compared them like Chevy vs Ford. Audi and Ford are in two different classes.

 

[Snow_Fox]

I don't understand the hate and hoopla myself. These are just tools people use. Some people pay a premium because they enjoy the experience. I prefer Irix and Solaris but those are pretty much dead weight now. My wife prefers Ubuntu. Computers are like cars. They get you from point A to Point B. Some people prefer Audis, some prefer Fords.

Eh.. I hesitate to compare it to cars

Your comparing operating systems.. not computers..

and I do understand the hate.. its pretty easy to.. I mean you yourself talked about how people can go total prema donna over the subject :/.

Doesn't it make a statement right there if people want the more expensive alternative when a cheaper will suffice..

Now depending on what kind of artist you have.. I'm sure it doesn't matter.. when you are in certain positions.. all that matters is you get your job done.. However, with that said.. there is plenty of room to get annoyed..

Think about it from this perspective.. My coworker told me he prefers mac because he "loves music and its the best for music". However, recently when I compared my two brothers MP3 players an ipod touch vs a Sony Walkman X series with a decent set of headphones (Audio Technica ES7s)

I could hear things on the walkman clearly that were a low murmer or indistinguishable on the ipod touch.. and sadly no one wants to listen to these things.. Or if I point this out.. my co worker just accuses me of apple bias.. Despite the fact he has a mac, iphone and is going to get an ipad..

OR they justify lower music quality with greater app selections.. however, it poses the question do you want a media player or an app gadget?

There is a distinguishable quality difference in many cases that gets completely ignored.. I don't care how people spend their money but, on the other hand I hate arguing quality when people are just going to chalk it up to me hating apple..

I mean its sad but, thats what it amounts to..

Apple loving co worker "apple is superior it doesn't get viruses"
Me "you pay a premium price and lose out on quality when you buy apple.."
Apple loving co worker "your just an apple hater"

That summerizes pretty much any convo I have with any person in love with an apple product..No I don't like apple... but, why would I just wake up and decide to hate apple? I don't go out and try to convert people.. but, I absolutely hate when the conversation comes up.. and people just try to ignore any points against apple made..

*Edit*

And it also annoys me the same co worker gets so confident that mac is so much safer than pc.. but, also refuses to believe why..

Even linux is horribly vunerable to viruses... I assure you if linux had the market share of windows.. people would find ways to create virus's.. However apple isn't nearly as concerned about security.. so people who believe mac is just magically safer will realize thats wrong sooner or later...

 

[mrspeedmaster]

So I'd really (honestly) like to hear your other "justifications" of using the Mac platform, and the company squandering money like it's growing on trees.

Also, what does a monitor (even if it's specialized) have to do with the box your running it on? Fill me in, curious on that one.

Man, you sure like to argue.

We work with what our clients used. You clearly didn't read that a few post up. Are you gonna tell your clients, you don't support what tools they already use?
You know anything about resource forks and mac HFS file systems? Client will give you a file like this "Artwork 06/11/20 ** revisons" that is 4 GB.
Good luck opening that file in Windows. See how you open a file name with a "/" in it because it is illegal in WIN.
Good luck moving a single 4GB file on a FAT32 portable drive. NTFS drives, you gonna tell our client to reformat their drives NTFS so they can move a 4Gb file? Again, Good luck with that. Clients are computer illiterate and not thay savvy.


Furthermore, macs by their core is UNIX based. We use a lot of UNIX tools. Having NFS 3rd party apps, X11 Clients on Window (even thru Cgywin) is a hassle. We don't use SAMBA at all. And do you think a MS shop would let someone install CYGWIN on all their client machines to access a file server?
Our servers are all UNIX/Linux. There is a general transition to Linux right now on the server end but there are still tools for Solaris.
Our vendors' servers are all UNIX period. Macs are the best clients that work in a Unix/Linux environment. SCP, rsync, X11, curl, SSH is all built into every macintosh.
When you set up a mac to render to linux server, you simply SSH into it, run a mount and execute a shell command. I can do this from my Android phone. We don't use Windows for part of this reason.
As for Linux desktops,try running Photoshop or something comparable to Final Cut on Ubuntu (my choice for Linux desktop). Try doing a commercial in any variant of Linux when there are certain private codecs.

So if you can't use Windows because they don't talk nicely w/ Unix servers and Unix workstations don't have the client desktop app you need, what do you use? Tell me, I really like to know. If I can't SSH into a Windows box run an automation shell script that, what good is it to me?
I'm the kind of guy who likes to use my Android (or Iphone) because it allows me to do these things. E.G. SSH into a workstation, SCP files, etc.. Change a route on a network swtich via the Juniper OS (which is accesible via SSH). Simple things to get my job done like running eth0 up,down with a misbehaving NIC.

Sure some of the apps are cross-platform but the plug-ins aren't. Macs have a greater number of plugins for Adobe stuff. Even Adobe knows this. You know those $4,000 fonts that Adobe use to sell back in the 90s, well they don't open up in Windows without rebuying them.
Yeah, did you know Adobe has a font division and those fonts are pretty pricey. You know how many ad agencies invested in those fonts like Meta, Univers back in the 80s, 90s, early 2000s.
Yeah, I can tell you how a certain font cost by looking at the magazine headline. There is a legacy investment that is tied to the mac platform. Again, I am tell my client I need the file with a Windows version of a plugin or font.
Hey, did you know the New York Times still use some macs that are PowerPC (non intel). Yeah, the New York Times uses old macs that are tied to their printing. You know, there is some old guy at the Chicago Tribune who wrote an applescript to automate the publication of the Classified. He is probably Union and the system works,am I gonna tell him, I am gonna give him a windows file that he can use his 10 year old automation script because he has to do it in Windows.


About that monitor.

Do yourself a favor and google Kodak (Yeah, the company that makes cameras) and their imaging division. They provide high-end color calibration tools that calibrates exact color.
You know, there are a million shades of red that the human eye can't see. That red is produced differently on a billboard (backlit) than it is in a magazineA, magazineB, and even on different monitors.
This may be getting way over your head but color accuracy, imaging is a dedicated industry in itself. While you are at google some of their imaging servers (check the pricing on those) and the client tools required.

While you are at it, Google IBM DS8000 raids and look at some Dell XSAN. Check their pricing while you are it. Check the replacement cost on those drives.

BTW, some of those RAIDS/Servers are part of a package with the vendor. So if Kodak provides me with a calibration workstation/server (their server, that they own to run their software), am I gonna rip open the internals to swap a drive that is not authorized by IBM?
See how you explain that.

Again, you like to argue something you have no domain knowledge of. Open your eyes., not everyone lives in your narrow world view.
Here me out, I never said mac was better than PC. But I just gave you examples of why certain people use macs. When MS embraces Unix technology like NFS, X11 and SSH, come back to me. You know many IT departments don't like shareware installed. E.G. Don't come back and tell me Putty is Freeware and you can ssh with Win7.
What, now, you gonna tell me I should get a Dell and dual boot Windows to Linux so I can have the best of both world? With you, it is a moving target if it doesn't fit your view.

I don't need to answer your every point because you clearly do not understand my industry nor do I need to justify or explain to you.
My last post on trying to justify anything to you.

 

[mrspeedmaster]

Last post was long so I'll just make the bullet points.

1) Macs are BSD/Unix based. They work with certain tools/servers/equipment that are Unix based. These tools/servers are in the imaging industry. They just work. E.G. to enable php, you just edit the apache config file. No downloading whatsoever. You wan to run X11, it is there.

2) Linux/Unix as Desktop workstations (for regular users) do not work because they don't have the major apps (Photoshop, even MS Office, don't support properiarty codecs/plugins).

3) Windows Machines Don't have the Unix "ism" traits needed to run/connect/integrate with Unix/Linux Servers without getting shareware/apps (some very pricey like some X11 apps).

4) There are legacy workflows (certain automation) and apps/plugins/fonts that existed years and are still used today. Why re-buy them for Windows if you already invested large sums of money in them. Example: Fonts, plugins.

5) Flexibility:
These are reasons why you see many Sysadmins use Macs. You get the sophistication of Unix if you need it and the ease-of-use for organizing your photos w/ iPhoto. Also, with a Mac, you can run every OS out there but you can't run OSX on a Dell (unless you hackintosh it). You can use Parallels/VMWare to run Win7, Ubuntu 10.04/ Chrome OS and even x86 Android on a mac. You can 6 way boot from your mac.

Again, I am not arguing which is better. I am explaining why some people may have a preference. If you look at some of the high-end laptops, a Dell Adamo cost as much as a MacBook Pro.

 

[Jammy]

But I feel with apples current policies, anyone who supports them or buys their products supports draconian dictatorship control of products we own.

I hate this argument. How are Apple controlling what you purchase? I don't know about you, but I live in a capitalist country in which I can choose to buy whatever I want. You have a choice to buy a phone that does not have an Apple logo on the back, just as people have the choice to do so if they wish.

The only way this argument could be justified was if the iPhone was the only viable product on the market, but you, being an Android fanboy, I doubt you believe that to be the case.

Fanboyism is stupid, no matter what for. A much better way to live your life would be to be open to any technology, no matter who makes it. Just look around, do your research and choose whatever best suits your needs.

I personally try my best to keep my product choice open, which is one reason why I like Macs. I can install any operating system I want on it legally, therefore, I get the benefits of OS X, Linux, Windows, or whatever other OS I choose to install of my machine.


I personally love the iPhone, however, I really like what I've seen of the HTC Desire, which I should be getting in around a month